D&D 3E/3.5 [3.5] Charge Problems [restarted - got too far off-topic]

[Caliban]

No - Trample denies your opponent the opportunity to avoid you during an Overrun. you also get one hoof attack @ +4 (for the bad guy being prone).

So can't you just do an Overrun on them after you hit them with the charge?

It only says you do it as part of a charge action. I don't see where it specifies that you can't do it after the attack, when you have the option of moving afterward (as with the Ride By Attack feat).

 

[AGGEMAM]

It only says you do it as part of a charge action. I don't see where it specifies that you can't do it after the attack, when you have the option of moving afterward (as with the Ride By Attack feat).

I think I'll refresh your memory now.

RIDE-BY ATTACK [GENERAL]

Benefit: When you are mounted and use the charge action, you may move and attack as if with a standard charge and then move again (continuing the straight line of the charge).

 

[Caliban]

I think I'll refresh your memory now.

Ah, so you agree with me then.

 

[AGGEMAM]

Ah, so you agree with me then.

Certainly not. RbA lets you charge and then move. The 2nd move is clearly not part of the charge action. So overruning is not an option.

 

[Artoomis]

Certainly not. RbA lets you charge and then move. The 2nd move is clearly not part of the charge action. So overruning is not an option.

I never use overrun, so I had not though of this before. Howvere, since you are "continuing the straight line of the charge," it seems like you could overrun after the attack is made.

If the so-called "second" move was not part of the charge action you should be able to move in any direction.

Interesting. Of little value to me with my halfing-on-a-dog bit, though.

 

[AGGEMAM]

I never use overrun, so I had not though of this before. Howvere, since you are "continuing the straight line of the charge," it seems like you could overrun after the attack is made.

No, that line, in paratheses I might add, is there to restrict the direction of your 2nd move.

 

[Caliban]

Certainly not. RbA lets you charge and then move. The 2nd move is clearly not part of the charge action. So overruning is not an option.

Continuing the straight line of the charge certainly sounds like part of the charge action to me.

Thanks once again for providing support for my suggestion.

 

[Artoomis]

No, that line, in paratheses I might add, is there to restrict the direction of your 2nd move.

The way it is worded, Ride by Attack simply changes the charge action from move---attack to move---attack---move.

It still a single charge action.

Overrun is simply done during the movement part of your charge. Ride by Attack only means the movement part is both before and after the attack.

Overruning most definately applies after the attack as well as before in a charge action.

 

[AGGEMAM]

NM.

I momentaerily forgot that you can Overrun as part of any movement not just as part of a charge.

 

[DrSpunj]

<snip>I think you can read the overrun rules to say that it is not an overrun if your opponent (or ally) lets you past.

Qoute page 157 3.5 PHB under "Step Two: Opponent Avoids?"
"In either case, the overrun attempt doesn't count against your actions this round (except for any movement required to enter the opponent's square)."

IMO this means that it does not count aginst Overruns provision aginst multiple overrun attempts in the same round.

So you feel only an Overrun that is Blocked is "counted" as an Overrun? And an Overrun that is Avoided isn't? Even though they are both outlined and spelled out one after the other under the section entitled "Overrun"?

I actually agree with you, Camarath, that this is the "spirit" of the rules, even if it isn't the "letter" of the rules. I just think it's unclear and directly contradictory to other parts of the 3.5 ruleset. With Orz paraphrasing Andy Collin's response to their question about this very issue, I feel fine about allowing my players to overrun allies (any number of them!). I will just feel better when this is clarified by WotC so charging characters in other games can feel better about choosing the Mounted Combat feat chain!

DrSpunj