D&D 3E/3.5 [3.5] Evard's Black Tentacles Q

[Rugger]

First, the required reading:

Black Tentacles
Conjuration (Creation)
Level: Sor/Wiz 4
Components: V, S, M
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./level)
Area: 20-ft.-radius spread
Duration: 1 round/level (D)
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: No
This spell conjures a field of rubbery black tentacles, each 10 feet long. These waving members seem to spring forth from the earth, floor, or whatever surface is underfoot—including water. They grasp and entwine around creatures that enter the area, holding them fast and crushing them with great strength.
Every creature within the area of the spell must make a grapple check, opposed by the grapple check of the tentacles. Treat the tentacles attacking a particular target as a Large creature with a base attack bonus equal to your caster level and a Strength score of 19. Thus, its grapple check modifier is equal to your caster level +8. The tentacles are immune to all types of damage.
Once the tentacles grapple an opponent, they may make a grapple check each round on your turn to deal 1d6+4 points of bludgeoning damage. The tentacles continue to crush the opponent until the spell ends or the opponent escapes.
Any creature that enters the area of the spell is immediately attacked by the tentacles. Even creatures who aren’t grappling with the tentacles may move through the area at only half normal speed.

And now the question:

Do the tentacles even need to make the touch attack to start the grapple?

It read (pretty clearly in my brain) that NO they do not. Roll opposed Grapple checks. Period.

But I had some stiff resistance to that ruling and was curious as to what others thought...

Thanks!

-Rugger
"I Grapple!"

 

[Ferret]

Strict ruling would sya no touch attack. It could also mean that the person who wrote it just grouped everything you do in a grapple into the word grapple. I'm inclined to go with the first, because it seems similar to entangle.

 

[Thanee]

If your group revolts... do a touch attack at caster level +4.

Otherwise I'd say, no touch attack, as the spell effect clearly states, that a grapple check is made. However, I can see why people would complain about that, as some characters just have about a zero chance to escape such a grapple and it's a spell with no save and no spell resistance. OTOH the touch attack isn't really changing that...

Bye
Thanee

 

[DM2]

The spell description is brutally clear that everyone in the area must make an opposed grapple check.

I'd say you don't have much chance to avoid being grabbed, as the tentacles fill the area...its only the avoidance of being grappled that you get to roll for, as a victem of the spell.

DM2

 

[Darklone]

I'd say, a grapple is not started if you cause damage with your initial AoO against the grappler... since the tentacles are immune to damage, you can do an AoO, but it won't help.

 

[S'mon]

The spell description is brutally clear that everyone in the area must make an opposed grapple check.

I'd say you don't have much chance to avoid being grabbed, as the tentacles fill the area...its only the avoidance of being grappled that you get to roll for, as a victem of the spell.

DM2

That's what it says. The single grapple roll simulates an attack by lots of tentacles. You can houserule it if you think it's overpowered, eg treating it as a single tentacle attack per target, which needs to obey standard grappling rules - it should probably at least have the Improved Grapple feat, though.

 

[Darklone]

It does not need the Imp Grapple feat. It would give yet another bonus +4...

And since they can't take damage, the tentacles do not need to care for AoOs.

 

[frankthedm]

Since the spell creates a field of tentacles, no touch attack is needed. Its very good for raping ground pounders, but 2 things:

While being tentacled you have a 50% chance to have any ranged attack fired at you to hit the tentacle due to grapple rules.

If you are entering the whrithing mess the tentacles would have to touch first since in that instance they "attack" you.

 

[Nail]

No save. No SR. Grapple check = caster level +8. Yoowza!

As written, the spell does not require a touch attack to begin the grapple.

Tentacles are "immune to all types of damage". Why am I seeing area damage spells being centered on grappled creatures? Grappled creatures automatically fail Reflex saves? Ouch.

"Was that a rogue I just saw in there? Not much left now, eh?"

 

[Rugger]

That's what it says. The single grapple roll simulates an attack by lots of tentacles.

That's kinda what I figured, too...that now they don't have the rules that determine exactly how many tentacles there are, its assumed that you are being surrounded by them. Thus the lack of touch attack and AoO.

Sure makes for a brutal spell...I like it!

-Rugger
"I Grapple!"