D&D 3E/3.5 3.5 monk...lawful = disciplined?

[Ashtagon]

The Buddha that can be met is not the true Buddha. You must strike down your illusions.

 

[Dandu]

Correct.

The original koan this came from was from Master Linji, who said " If you meet the Buddha, kill him."

The whole deal about killing the Buddha is not, of course, literal; everything is symbolic.

The road is the path to enlightenment, and the Buddha is one's preconcieved notions of what the Buddha is. This preconcieved notion is invariably incorrect, and must be cast aside so that there can be room for an awakening as to the true nature of the Buddha.

Now, Pawsplay, can you please tell me how this is chaotic?

 

[pawsplay]

Now, Pawsplay, can you please tell me how this is chaotic?

If the way can become an impediment, then it is not the way. The Zen approach is based on flexibility of thought (flexibility is a Chaotic key word) and frequently lessons are taught by jarring preconceived notions, even attacking rigid notions of righteous behavior. The koan teaches that one way is not found through teachers, or through a path, or through a messianic figure, or through knowledge, but through a action that occurs within the individual (and again, individual actions with ethical consequences is a Chaotic touchstone).

 

[Dandu]

On the other hand, Zen monks are expected to be absolutely obidient to their superiors, which is...

 

[rusty2667]

Has anybody ever attempted to cut out alignment from dnd?

I imagine that I'd be better off playing a different rpg, but am definitely curious enough to read somebody's attempt. Revamping spell domains would a big pain in the arse.

ETA eh, it was just an idle thought, don't let my comment disrupt the existential debate.

 

[pawsplay]

On the other hand, Zen monks are expected to be absolutely obidient to their superiors, which is...

Neither lawful nor chaotic. If I want to be a jet pilot, going to flying school says nothing about my commitment to individual freedom versus collective mandates.

 

[Philosopher]

Has anybody ever attempted to cut out alignment from dnd?

I imagine that I'd be better off playing a different rpg, but am definitely curious enough to read somebody's attempt. Revamping spell domains would a big pain in the arse.

ETA eh, it was just an idle thought, don't let my comment disrupt the existential debate.

Just cut them out. Remove the alignment domains. Remove the various detect and protection from spells. (You can keep detect evil and protection from evil, but define "evil" as "hostile intent" or some such thing.) The paladin's smite evil can turn into a smite against a specific sort of foe (perhaps choose one from the ranger's list of favored enemies).

I may have left a few points out, but I imaging that they could be handled just as easily.

 

[Dandu]

Neither lawful nor chaotic.

"Law" implies honor, trustworthiness, obedience to authority, and reliability.

 

[pawsplay]

"Law" implies honor, trustworthiness, obedience to authority, and reliability.

None of which has anything to do with "following a path I personally find worthwhile." The obedience to a teacher is balanced, I think, by the fact that being a Zen student is not a requirement of society but a vocation. Certainly, Zen doesn't teach you to obey all authorities; quite the opposite, conscientiously following the Zen Buddhist path is all but guaranteed to lead you into conflict with society and perhaps even the law.

 

[pawsplay]

Just cut them out. Remove the alignment domains. Remove the various detect and protection from spells. (You can keep detect evil and protection from evil, but define "evil" as "hostile intent" or some such thing.) The paladin's smite evil can turn into a smite against a specific sort of foe (perhaps choose one from the ranger's list of favored enemies).

I may have left a few points out, but I imaging that they could be handled just as easily.

Just as a point of reference, the Rules Cyclopedia has only Lawful, Neutral, and Chaotic alignments, but the spells Detect Evil and Protection From Evil, not Law/Chaos.