D&D 3E/3.5 3.5/PF - Some Ideas for speeding combat.

[Dandu]

Why do you say 4e may be best? I haven't played it so I don't know what changes they have made to the system.

It is simpler.

1a) Simplify the mechanics of stackable bonuses: reduce types so they don't stack or define a smaller set of always stackable bonus

Buffing characters will suffer. Fights with enemies may be harder.

1b) Reduce the number of conditions, and those remaining will be simplified for giving only clear/self-contained bonuses/penalties (e.g. a straight -2 to AC and not -2 to Dex. A straight +2 to hit and damage and not a +Y to STR).

Would mean a lot of calculations for you the DM.

2) Eliminate various rules for durations, make them last for the encounter or for the whole day (or another easy-to-understand-and-manage duration). Less tracking to do.

Most rounds/level duration spells will last the entire combat (or longer) at higher levels. The hours/level will effectively last for the entire adventuring day anyays. I'd leave the minutes/level duration spells unchanged. You don't want the Alter Self spell lasting all day, for example, but restricting it to lasting for just a combat encounter seems unecessary.

3) Eliminate those spells or conditions that imply a lot of on-the-fly recalculation (damage/bonus to ability scores, level draining).

Back in my day, we calculated everything out, we did, on paper with pencils and using our brains for the math. Uphill, in the snow, both ways while it was raining.

 

[Alexander123]

Not to go OT, but why may I ask Dandu do you still play 3e?

 

[Greenfield]

All my "speed up the game" ideas are procedural, rather than rules-changing.

I took drew up a sheet with numbers down the left side, from 30 to 0 descending, and glued it to a piece of metal flashing I bought at the home center. Laid some plastic lamination on top, and got some rubber magnets. I wrote the names of each of the players on a little tab of rubber magnet, and made a few that said things like, "Monster 1", "Monster 2", etc. Added one as a pointer.

Now when we roll Initiatives I ask everyone what they got and mark their place on the scale. Monsters got on there as well. I use the pointer as I count down the initiatives, shifting it as I go.

When I hit someone's initiative I ask what they're doing, and warn the next player that they're up next. It cuts out a lot of the ,"Oh, is it my turn? Let's see..." stuff.

If you aren't ready when your turn comes up, you're Holding action.

People with Held or Readied actions get their pointer pulled aside as I go, then relocated when they decide to take their actions.

Spell effects on the field are written on the leftover space to the right of the chart, with lines drawn to the initiative point when they started, and a round # marked for when they started, and how long they last. I use the same markers I use on the battle mat. They come off with water, or just a damp finger.

It also gives me an easy place to mark hit points for each monster.

This simple device keeps things running in order, handles cyclic Initiative, Held Actions, brain dead players and the occasional brain dead DM. (That's me, at least some of the time).

It's also pretty good for tracking spells, conditions, bonuses and penalties.

When I played 4e we made up some colored condition markers. You can buy them, but why waste the money? Go get a pack of 1 inch "fender washers" at the hardware store. Big flat disks with little tiny holes in the center. I backed them with magnetic rubber strips, and spray painted them all sorts of colors.

Now just agree on what each color means, and use them as needed. Slip them under the figs of affected monsters or PCs. They'll stick together because of the magnets, and you can see all the different colors showing on the edges.

Over all I didn't find these all that useful. We still had a fight keeping track of who got Slowed or Dazed or Poisoned by who, and when when it had happened. And in 4e condition markers change constantly. Okay if you've got a computer doing all the timekeeping and book keeping, as WOW does. Not so good on the tabletop.

Have I mentioned that I don't play 4e any more? That's one of the reasons why.
We used to joke that we knew when a monster was about to go down because the stack of markers under his mini got to be taller than he was.

 

[PowerMaster]

It is simpler.

Buffing characters will suffer. Fights with enemies may be harder.

Would mean a lot of calculations for you the DM.

Most rounds/level duration spells will last the entire combat (or longer) at higher levels. The hours/level will effectively last for the entire adventuring day anyays. I'd leave the minutes/level duration spells unchanged. You don't want the Alter Self spell lasting all day, for example, but restricting it to lasting for just a combat encounter seems unecessary.

Back in my day, we calculated everything out, we did, on paper with pencils and using our brains for the math. Uphill, in the snow, both ways while it was raining.

Depending on how buffs will be modified, they can be harder or easier (stacking is impossibile or everything stacks).

If I can reduce the various scenarios of penalties I don't worry on making calculation myself if I can pre-make those (or if they are simplified... make on the fly).

Back in my day, we calculated THAC0 without paper and pencil! Downhill, in the flaming slopes of 2E Baator while it was raining lemures.

All my "speed up the game" ideas are procedural, rather than rules-changing.
<snip>

Precious advices my friend. I can see if I can make a magnetic board like your.

 

[Mark CMG]

One way to avoid multiple recalculations during combat is to have all effects last at least as long as any possible incident of combat.

 

[PowerMaster]

One way to avoid multiple recalculations during combat is to have all effects last at least as long as any possible incident of combat.

That's why I was considering fixing the duration of some spells (those who are measured in rounds/level) to a fixed amount that is "until the end of the encounter".

 

[tankiller]

I have found that the fastest why to get through the battle is to use group initiative. The group and the badies roll initiative and the highest goes first. The round starts out with movement then any magic effects followed by archers and then melee goes. The round then ends with movement for anyone who can still move. My group has implemented this format and have cut the combat time in half and we can get alot more done in the time fram as well because everyone always knows when it is there turn and can be ready to go.

 

[Gottohneaffen]

PowerMaster, one thing you can try is the 6 second rule [a turn is about 6 seconds] therefore giving each person [including you] about 6 seconds to act on their turn and if they don't, they delay or don't act. It shouldn't be that hard to say I'll move up here and attack. If they are describing an effect or looking up a spell or something important you could take it off the time for then or be an evil DM and not as it could be abused. Some players & you may not like it but my group does because it's fast paced combat and realistically you shouldn't have minutes to think of what to do in a dangerous situation like combat. You could change this rule to maybe 30 seconds, a minute or a few minutes because SERIOUSLY if someone takes a few minutes to do just their one turn something is wrong If everyone takes a while on their turns... then you really need a solution. This is a nice idea that could be used to speed up combat if the players' are slowing it down by taking really long turns and not thinking of it till their turn.

Know what your monsters are like before you play and what they would do if possible. Knowing what your monsters will do on the spot will speed up combat
Tell the PCs to KNOW what they are doing or have a good idea of what to do before it's their turn. I always do this because we all hate it when someone new is up but has to take several minutes to decide what he's going to do and same with the next person. If you incorperate the 6 second rule in, they probably would think not on their turn because they want to go. This should go for monsters too.

What I did at first is say we are going to try something new and we may or may not use it and I had us try out the 6 second rule as the DM to gather opinions of players [some think it's a terrible idea but like it afterwards] and we tried it, still do it too.

Tankiller has a good idea on group initiative. If you have a really large group of monsters & PCs, you may want to do that and just average it. I usually let the players do initiative for themselves and I ask the order and write it down on paper because none of the players have done a good enough job yet. You could try getting a player to take & call initiative but i've not had luck with that because my players usually take over 30 seconds to say who's next up even with the sheet there which is a problem for me as a DM because I like them to tell the next player who is up that they're on the spot after so-and-so, so they'd be ready to take their turn next. That speeds it up more for me.

Then I just average the monsters, or do them into groups like I'd have the orcs & goblins both have seperate group initiatives. Hope I helped or at least gave an interesting idea,
Gottohneaffen

 

[PowerMaster]

[MENTION=6671674]tankiller[/MENTION]
Group initiative is a cool idea, but I don't know if organize it in phases.

[MENTION=6671356]Gottohneaffen[/MENTION]
A limit on time for player's decisions is not applicable. People are slow. They don't care, they don't want to be fast.

I cannot made fast a slow person, I can only reduce is workload.

 

[Magesmiley]

1) Keeping track of multiple spell's effects or conditions
2) Keeping track of multiple durations.
3) Dealing with situations that generate a cascade of effects. For example some conditions and some effects that give bonus/penalties to ability scores.

So, also being a software developer who hates using computers at his game table, a couple of low-tech things we do:

1. Every player keeps a large sticky note on their character sheet with the current value of anything that has changed from their character sheet. This works pretty well to keep track of what someone's current stats modifiers are when a bunch of effects have been applied.
2. For spell durations, I have the players keep track of them. Sticky notes work well here too - they stick a note near them with the spell name and the duration, then just use tally marks to keep track of how much time has passed.