D&D 3E/3.5 3.5 Rules for garroting?

[Zaruthustran]

I'd say that the garrot can only be used against a target who is denied their Dex bonus to your attacks. Flat-footed, helpless, paralyzed, stunned, etc. You're not going to get a garrot around the neck of an active combatant.

If you disagree, at least make it like a grapple attempt: the garrot attack provokes an AoO, and if the AoO does any damage the garrot attack is foiled.

 

[Primitive Screwhead]

I thought about that.. but consider, Combat Reflexes makes you immune to Garrote?

I think I might add the intial attack draws an AoO which makes its use more limited to first round..but I don't want to make it so limited that the weapon is pointless...it already takes a long time to work, offers the target a chance to avoid damage...

thoughts on improving the wording to mesh better with the grappling mechanics?

 

[isoChron]

Why not use the grapple rules but:
1- Initiating a garrote grapple provokes AoO and works only vs. opponents lost their DEX (flatfooted, invisible attacker, feint, stunned, paralysed, helpless, grappled by another opponent). Reason, it's to difficult to lay a rope around someones neck if the victim is aware of that.
2- Damage dice is damage from the garrote (light weapon, though used with both hands) not unarmed damage.
3- Each round you pin (strangle) the victim he can hold his breath. (CON-Score in rounds/ half that if you fight against it, making grapple checks, etc.). After that he must make CON checks starting with DC 10 and increasing every round by one. Failure means suffocation, dying, dead.
4- the garrote user gets a +2 (or+4) bonus on grapple checks representing the difficult wrestling with a life squeezing garrote around your neck. This makes it a little less STR dependend, so rogues get a chance to use it. You can add +4 to that if you have Improved Grapple.
5- ah, and it's an exotic weapon (improvised 1d3 (crit not applicable since grapple checks are made), cord & rope 1d4, steel wire with handles 1d6)

A CON 10 Commoner (given enough HP) can hold it's breath for 5 rounds even if he doesn't win a single grapple check.
After that he may succeed in the first CON-check, perhaps the second and after that he will be dead in 3 rounds. That's about a minute to strangle a commoner and the odds get worse vs. a fighter or barbarian, who likely will break the grapple at some point and take some air again.


Combat Reflexes, Blind-Fight, see invisibility, blind sight, listening lore call, Uncanny Dodge and true seeing may negate the initial garrote attack in some situations.
How does this sound ?

EDIT (more ideas): The victim is silenced during every round it is in grapple, even if the pin check fails. And perhaps reduce the damage dice a step. The victim should die of suffocation, not direct damage.

-Locking garrotes may auto-pin (strangle) each round after the first pin (strangle) attempt succeeds. DC10 disable device to unlock on self, 2d4 rounds, no take 10. Damage to destroy. Helping friends can unlock the garrote in 1 full round action (provoking AoO) without a check.

 

[ValhallaGH]

I'd use the d20 Modern Strangulation rules, but say that a Garrote (and possibly some sort of Chokehold or Blood Choke feat) would skip that pesky 'holding breath' stage and go straight to Con checks.

I need to write this down.

 

[Zaruthustran]

I thought about that.. but consider, Combat Reflexes makes you immune to Garrote?

When you said "Combat Reflexes", did you mean "Uncanny dodge"? Because I'm not seeing how Combat Reflexes would protect the target, given the suggested rules.

Assuming you meant Uncanny Dodge: well, yeah, it'd make you immune to garrote. Sounds reasonable. It *should* be difficult to strangle canny rogues and jumpy barbarians.

I understand that a garrote is a deadly weapon, but man, so is a sword. Seems like if you want any hope of keeping the weapon balanced and usable (from a flow-of-play perspective), you need to keep it as simple as possible.

Heck, in 3.0 they even de-mystified the katana, favored Uber weapon of gamers since Highlander came out. I humbly suggest you keep the garrote grounded. It's a neat way to silence an unsuspecting foe, but it is *not* a reasonable weapon for combat.

More suggested rules:
Two-handed.
Can not be used to threaten/can not be used during an AoO.
Can only be used on a person denied their Dex bonus to AC.
Attacking with one provokes an AoO, and if attacked is damaged by AoO the attack is stopped.
If target hit by garrote, target is considered Grappled and attacker and target are grappling.
Target is unable to speak or vocalize.
If attacker attempts to Pin, Garrote gives +4 to grapple checks.
If attacker successfully pins target, target must make Constitution checks as if drowning. A failed constitution check has normal results from drowning (fail once = 0 hp and unconscious). Attacker may release target at this stage, or maintain pin. If attacker maintains pin, the next round target drops to -1 and is dying. If pin maintained the next round target dies.

Drowning
Any character can hold her breath for a number of rounds equal to twice her Constitution score. After this period of time, the character must make a DC 10 Constitution check every round in order to continue holding her breath. Each round, the DC increases by 1.

When the character finally fails her Constitution check, she begins to drown. In the first round, she falls unconscious (0 hp). In the following round, she drops to –1 hit points and is dying. In the third round, she drowns.

-z

 

[isoChron]

Combat Reflexes allows you to make AoO even if you are flatfooted. Say provoked by a grapple attempt with a garrote ... and with Combat Reflexes you can also foil the second and third attempt if your DEX is high enough and if you hit. Immune, nah, very difficult, yep.

 

[Zaruthustran]

Combat Reflexes allows you to make AoO even if you are flatfooted. Say provoked by a grapple attempt with a garrote ... and with Combat Reflexes you can also foil the second and third attempt if your DEX is high enough and if you hit. Immune, nah, very difficult, yep.

Ah, I see. Well, again: what's the problem with that? If you have very good reflexes in combat situations, it should be very hard for someone else to waltz up and drop a noose around your neck.

-z

 

[isoChron]

Sounds quite reasonable. I have no problem with the fact that this may foil your garrote attack.