D&D 3E/3.5 [3.5e] Damage Reduction

[MerakSpielman]

well, let's take Werewolves.

I always imagined that they weren't injured by mundane weapons, not because the weapons couldn't penetrate their hide, but becasue their were-nature made the wounds heal as quickly as they happened.

A magical sword is enchanted to be true when it strikes, to have a super-keen edge, to be more flexible and strong, to be light, etc... Its magical nature (in my mind) is nothing more than an unnatural enhancement of mundane features.

For some creatures, a little unnatural sharpness and accuracy is just what is needed to bypass the DR (Stone Golems, for instance)

I do not see the magical sword damaging my werewolf.

Silver, on the other hand, is like poison to lycanthropes. Like sunlight to vampires, they have a natural vulnerability to it. The wounds from silver don't close instantly - they stay open and cause real damage.


This is my interpretation for justification of silver-damages but magic doesn't. Take it or leave it.

 

[MerricB]

The issue of magic not trumping material protection is somewhat dependent on how great the Damage Reduction is in the first place. After all, the new rules aren't "your magic weapon can't hurt the monster at all", just that it works at a lesser effectiveness.

In "Nine Princes of Amber", by Roger Zelazny, Corwin wields a magical silver blade; he uses it to slay two weir (werewolves) that his brother and sister have slain; I find it hard to imagine Random's blade not being magical, although Deirdre uses her bare hands.

In any case, this "new" Damage Reduction issue has been with us for quite a while - because of regeneration.

Against Trolls, you only deal subdual damage unless you use acid or fire.

Against Demons, you need a blessed weapon, or it's subdual damage.

Damage Reduction makes it more obvious that things aren't working, however... and may be more painful in the end.

Cheers!

 

[Petrosian]

[/B][/QUOTE]

I always imagined that they weren't injured by mundane weapons, not because the weapons couldn't penetrate their hide, but becasue their were-nature made the wounds heal as quickly as they happened.

If we accept this definition, why do werewolves not heal cold damage (ray of frost) or "force damage" (magic missiles) or even simple bludgeoning damage (ice storm or ice burst) quickly? For all these effects and more, the werewolf's DR is not taken into account at all.

This is why your chosen definition fails to meet the game definitions in a consistent manner.

The fact that magical hail stones beating the werewolf on top of the head ignores his silver only designer dr is the number one reason why i conclude that magic in any form should go thru the DR or have a chance to bypass it.

A magical sword is enchanted to be true when it strikes, to have a super-keen edge, to be more flexible and strong, to be light, etc... Its magical nature (in my mind) is nothing more than an unnatural enhancement of mundane features.

and magical hail stone do simple bludgeoning damage yet go right past the DR like it wasn't there. Why do they do this? Because they are magical hail stones. Why should the magical sowrd blade go thru, because its magical.

There are other cases as well where the "magical" nature shows it to be more than just sharper. No matter how sharp it is a non-magical-scimitar cannot harm a wraith. A magical one can.

The game shows magic to be more than just a little more edge.

For some creatures, a little unnatural sharpness and accuracy is just what is needed to bypass the DR (Stone Golems, for instance)

I do not see the magical sword damaging my werewolf.

Do you see the bludgeoning damage from hailstones conjured by magic as? The rules do.

Silver, on the other hand, is like poison to lycanthropes. Like sunlight to vampires, they have a natural vulnerability to it. The wounds from silver don't close instantly - they stay open and cause real damage.

I can see that logic as well. I would represent it as a vulnerability to silver, taking xtra damage or making a save to avoid reaction and so forth. IE silver is the means by which normals, without magic, have a chance against the beast. Silver is not some potent effect that no enchanment can duplicate.

This is my interpretation for justification of silver-damages but magic doesn't. Take it or leave it.

I leave it as too inconsistent for my taste. But then, our tastes differ.

To be consistent, the Dr for thr werewolf would need to apply to a lot of magical spell effects like ray of frost and magic missile and so forth and especially to being beaten over the head with magical hailstones. If the DR "fast healing" applied to all of those effects... because magic is not inimical to werewolves... then you would be along the way towards consistent. Along the same lines, since a +1 sword is just unnaturally sharp and balanced, it should not affect whether the blade can hit insubstantial creatures.

That would be consistent.

 

[Lord Rasputin]

Which issue of Dragon was that in?

The new one -- #307, I think. Wizards left open the chance of change -- the passage read something like (don't have it here) "right now, we have it at +1 for every four caster levels."

 

[Corinth]

The preview information regarding Damage Reduction and the changes to greater magic weapon is in issue #306.

 

[daoloth]

Yes but in the new edition who is to say that wraiths will be effected by magical weapons? Seeing what they are doing, it's entirely possible that magical weapons will only effect creatures that are unnatural tough (golems, dragons, etc) and that other creatures will need these different weapon types. You'll need your magically sharp weapon (+1, +2, etc) weapon to effect unnaturally tough creatures, your cold iron weapons to effect fey, your holy weapon to effect undead, etc. Personally I think it makes more sense. The enhancement bonus to the weapons was an enhancement to it's sharpness and balance, which is why you get the bonus to damage and attack. How exactly is it better at hitting incorpreal creatures? Now perhaps we will see a better thought out system.

As for spell effects (ray of frost, ice storm), perhaps they will be reworking those systems too. We'll have to wait and see.




-daoloth

 

[Shard O'Glase]

"The article also describes how the monk's unarmed attacks reflect the new rules (Magic at level 4, Lawful at level 10, Adamantine at level 16), and mentions a new spell, align weapon"

What no chaos fist, no holy silver antelope technique, just magic, lawful and adamantine how boring.

 

[bret]

If they weaken Greater Magic Weapon to 1/4 levels, wouldn't that hurt the Paladin a lot?

The Paladin has a caster level of half his level, which already limits him to a maximum of +3 bonus (at 18th level). If they change it to 1/4 caster level, the Paladin would be limited to +2 bonus (at 16th level).

I hope they remember that by the current rules, Paladins and Rangers only have a caster level of half their character level.

 

[Grog]

I do not see the magical sword damaging my werewolf.

Then why would a magic missile damage your werewolf?

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

IMC werewolves have regeneration, not fast healing. They regenerate from all damage, except that inflicted by silver.

As a result, Magic Missile deals subdual damage to a lycanthrope IMC.

BTW did they give costs on silver and cold iron?