[3.5E] In The Works - Changes to the Titan

[Caliban]

Mialee's eyes grow wider and looks to ember: Ember?
Ember nods and smiles.
Mialee rushes forward as magic courses through her hands. She places the magic upon redgar, who feels assurance in his blade, and insight upon his foe (true strike).
Redgar chooses to act, and rushes forward, his eyes upon the maul. He swings heavily, and even though the titan's maul is huge, and the demigod's skill great, Redgar has trained a long time in the disarming of weapons, and with the true strike is good enough to put the maul upon the ground.

Exactly when did Mialee gain the ability to cast Personal only spells on other people?

Pretty neat trick, that.

 

[BryonD]

Boy, I really can not disagree more.

The DR 10/X do not start at low CRs. Any mid level fighter worth his salt can still be very effective against such a creature. At the simplest level he can just take the -10 and work away. But he can also actaully (heaven forbid) think tactically and grapple, or fight defensively to help the rogue flank or the wizard cast as few more spells. (Or a wide variety of other possibilities)

Oh the fun and glory of doing less damage every time swing I can feel the heroism in that.

HA. God forbid you face a challenge. Everyone knows the real path to glory is to smash an inferior foe in one whack and then lie about it later.

3E DR - I am a dreaded werewolf only silver weapons may harm me!!!

Fighter, Hey Wiz, can I borrow that back-up dagger you have? I do not want to get my blade dirty on this little thing. :: poke ::

Werewolf - OOOWW, I'm dying, but, but, that isn't even silver!!!! You mean any 2nd level hero can ignore my DR???!!!??

3.5DR - I am a dreaded werewolf only silver weapons may harm me!!!

Fighter, Crap, no silver weapons. Well, you're still going to know it when my sword rips you open. Hey Wiz, I'll hold him off, but I may need some help.

Or you caried a golf bag around, yep that's heroic.

Wah Wah, the (already) cliche golf bag. Anybody who tries that is going to find that they REALLY wish they had pooled their money into one better weapon rather than a bunch of marginals that just sit in a bag.

There's nothing heroic about the new DR, its just a lame mechanic that gets in the way of having fun and playing the game.

Yeah yeah, you said that before. Maybe if you say it ten more times it will start to be true.

How would you do The Others from ASoIaF with the old system? You can't because the old system was 100% devoid of flavor for anything like that. Of course, obviously Robb was "dumb for some lame flavor issue" because he attacked one anyway. And, WAIT A TICK, THAT made him a... a..... A Hero!!! How could that be?

 

[Junkheap]

Gezzuz, can we stop the damn whining all the time. All i see in most of the threads is people crying about mages being shafted, and now fighters being shafted with the new dr rules. I guarantee, if i look at the wah, the spellcasters are being screwed threads, i will find a couple people in that thread that were saygin fighters are ruling everything and now they cry in this thread that dr is screwing fighters. I won't say who they are, but PLEASE SHUT THE HELL UP. We don't need crying in every thread. If you dont like the rules, use the old ones.

Sorry to go into a rage here, but jeez i hate cry babies especially when they are not FORCED to use what they dont like. The majority doesn't think like you, and i am not asking you to think like me, BUT for GODS SAKES, not in almost EVERY THREAD! This was a discussion about the new titan, not the stupid new DR, which i think is an AMAZING addition to the new rules. I think ravenloft had some sort of this, or was it die vecna die?

Again, sorry for the rage.

Btw, ByronD, i swear i didn't need to reply, but you always reply to exaclty what i think to a tee. It's feaking scary. Put them in thier place.

 

[Technik4]

The old DR never helped combat. It helped sadistic DMs screw over a party rogue/monk/bard or any other "semi" combat class if they did not keep up the appropriate enhancement bonuses on their weapons or invest in Sure Striking. As you said, it was mostly a non-issue, but when it did come up it usually resulted in the PCs running from massive DR.

Of course, these same people will tell you that the new "designer" DR is a bad mechanic because it is unbelievable that every 1st level fighter hasnt had a long talk with a grizzled vet and learned about every DR in the book; plus isnt it silly to have a "golfbag" of weapons just to fight monsters? That is so lame!!

Anyway, I love the new DR, I think it adds a lot of flavor to a mechanic which wasnt getting hardly any use.

Technik

 

[Grog]

With the new DR: highest is 15, possibly 20 on epic critters. Easy for a high-level character to get through even without the right weapon, but the right weapon will still make a big positive difference.

The problem is, the goal is not just to "get through" DR. DR isn't like SR, which is all or nothing - if you get through the SR, your spell has full effect, and if not, it has no effect. DR isn't like that - it's possible to get through DR and yet have your attack still have almost no effect on the enemy.

And the problem is worse for certain types of characters. High-strength fighters who use two-handed weapons and do massive amounts of damage per swing may still be able to do significant damage through DR, depending on the amount. But what about dual wielders and/or finesse fighters? DR is going to shut them down cold, even at relatively small amounts. These characters had enough problems already; it just baffles me as to why WotC would want to weaken them further.

And another thing - what about CRs? Will a monster's CR assume that the PCs have the right weapons to bypass its DR or not? This is going to make CRs even less useful for gauging how dangerous an encounter will be.

 

[coyote6]

AC 42 (+1 Dex, +13 plate, +7 shield, +5 natural, +5 ring, +1 luckstone)

I don't like assuming that all 20th level fighters will have +5 plate; for one thing, that's boring. For another, out of my group, no one has yet played a full plate wearing character; having the game setup to require them to do so is, well, boring.

 

[Caliban]

Would you mind sharing this trade secret? I am sorta curious myself how this would be accomplished.

Let me see:

My "fighter" PC is currently a Dwarven Ftr8/Div1/Def1/Dev1 (Fighter/Wizard (Diviner)/Dwarven Defender/Devoted Defender)

Feats: Dodge, Toughness, Weapon Focus (battleaxe), Mobility, Weapon Specialization (Battleaxe), Expertise, Power Attack, Endurance, Improved Crit (Battleaxe), Alertness (familiar), Scribe Scroll (Wizard bonus feat)

10 (base)
+1 (14 Dex in Full Plate)
+9 (+1 Called Full Plate)
+4 (+2 Lg. Steel Shield)
+2 (Ring of Protection +2)
+1 (Amulet of Natural Armor +1)
+1 (Dwarven Defender bonus)
----------------------------------------
28 Normal AC

Activated AC bonuses:

+1 (Dodge feat)
+4 (Haste from Boots of Speed)
+7 (Shield spell from a scroll - scrolls don't have Arcane Spell failure)
+5 (Expertise feat)
+2 (Fighting Defensively)
----------------------------------

47 AC

Misc. AC modifiers:

+4 AC when moving or in Defensive Stance (Mobility Feat or Dwarven Defender stance)
+4 AC vs. Giants
+1 AC when actively defending his charge (Harm's Way from Devoted Defender)

Max AC = 55 when moving through a giants threatened area with full expertise, fighting defensively, hasted, and with the Shield spell up.

This will drop by 10 points in 3.5, because Haste will only grant a +1 AC bonus, and the Shield spell will only grant a +4 AC bonus that won't stack with his +2 Lg. Steel Shield.

But at 20th level he will likely have improved all his defensive items significantly, so his AC will be even higher.

This is a PC that focuses on Defense over offense, obviously.

 

[Grog]

Gezzuz, can we stop the damn whining all the time. All i see in most of the threads is people crying about mages being shafted, and now fighters being shafted with the new dr rules. I guarantee, if i look at the wah, the spellcasters are being screwed threads, i will find a couple people in that thread that were saygin fighters are ruling everything and now they cry in this thread that dr is screwing fighters. I won't say who they are, but PLEASE SHUT THE HELL UP. We don't need crying in every thread. If you dont like the rules, use the old ones.

If you don't have anything to say except "PLEASE SHUT THE HELL UP", why even bother posting? It only makes you look childish and immature.

 

[ruleslawyer]

Shard: Think of it this way. Does a resistance that a warrior can overcome with virtual certainty all the time against any creature vaguely within his capacity to face contribute to a "heroic" game?

As for the titan: Not exactly impossible for a 20th-level party to overcome. A wizard with an Int of 34 (not too hard to do), GSF, and some PrC that grants +2 spell power (those are going to be in the revised DMG, ya know) can throw a dominate monster with a DC of 35. That's a (.65 x .65 =) 42% chance of ending the combat with a single spell. Two less optimal save-or-die Will spells (with, say, DC 30 or so) yield a 45% chance of ending the combat. (A wizard who throws Fort-save spells at anything like a titan deserves what he gets, BTW.)

 

[randomninja]

Just to get back on topic, the new Titan is a brute...and I like it that way. I like the idea of an adventuring party getting the shivers just thinking of taking on something that powerful. I'm also really really really glad they got rid of all the sissy spell like abilities. I hope this is a universal change for powerful monsters. I mean really, why would a 25 foot tall, heavily armored, maul-weilding, superwarrior who has access to the likes of firestorm and chain-lightning, Really want to summon a small forest creature, cure 10 hps a shot, and then unleash the almighty Produce Flame spell?