D&D 3E/3.5 3.5E Weapon Master?

[Legildur]

Why wasn't the Weapon Master from Sword and Fist upgraded to the Complete Warrior?

Was it because it lacked flavor? Or was it overpowered?

It had good BAB, good Reflex saves, and the special abilities seem nice without being ridiculous. The only ones that might cause a problem in my opinion are Ki Critical (+2 to threat range that stacks with Improved Critical and Keen) gained at 7th level and Ki Whirlwind Attack (Whirlwind Attack as a standard action instead of a full round action) gained at 9th level, as they are not use limited like the other abilities of the class.

However, it had a pretty steep entry cost with BAB+5, Intimidate 4 ranks, Dodge, Mobility, Combat Reflexes, Whirlwind Attack, Expertise, Weapon Focus, and Dex 13+.

The Dervish (from CW) seems to be the closest thing I could see for 3.5E.

 

[Hypersmurf]

The only ones that might cause a problem in my opinion are Ki Critical (+2 to threat range that stacks with Improved Critical and Keen) gained at 7th level...

Interestingly, shortly after 3.5 was released, someone asked Andy Collins (the driving force, as I understand it, behind the 'Crits should be special!' change that prevents Imp Crit or Keen from stacking with any other effect that increases threat range) how he'd update Weapon Master to 3.5, with Ki Critical. He answered that he didn't see any problem with letting the +2 continue to stack.

... and Ki Whirlwind Attack (Whirlwind Attack as a standard action instead of a full round action) gained at 9th level...

Out of curiosity - do you really see this as a game-breaking ability? How often is Whirlwind Attack a sensible tactical choice in your games?

-Hyp.

 

[Trainz]

Out of curiosity - do you really see this as a game-breaking ability? How often is Whirlwind Attack a sensible tactical choice in your games?

-Hyp.

Never in my games. All my fighter players go the great cleave route.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Never in my games. All my fighter players go the great cleave route.

Huh.

Cleave is a fantastic feat. Great Cleave... well, I just always have so many other things I want to spend feat slots on that I'll actually use

-Hyp.

 

[The Souljourner]

Both whirlwind attack and great cleave are fun the one or two times they actually come up (great cleave even less) in a campaign. Definitely not worth it.

I really don't think you need a weapon master for 3.5. With improved weapon focus and improved specialization, any 12th level fighter is automatically a weapon master. The whole Ki mechanic seemed really out of place on a weapon master to me. Ki energy is a very far eastern concept, and not something joe schmoe fighter would generally have anything to do with (in a generic D&D campaign), so the class never really seemed to work from a flavor point of view.

With the improved feats fighters get, they can spend 5 feats specific to a single weapon (6 if it's exotic). Isn't that enough of a master?

-The Souljourner

 

[Hypersmurf]

With the improved feats fighters get, they can spend 5 feats specific to a single weapon (6 if it's exotic).

More, if you include Complete Warrior

-Hyp.

 

[Legildur]

Yes Souljourner, I agree in part that the new fighter feats essentially take them down this road, and combined with the Elusive Target tactical feat (from CW), it could be some fun.

However, the maximum damage and increased critical multiplier on an occasional basis could really be useful.

As for your question, 'how often is Whirlwind Attack a sensible tactical choice in your games?' My answer is 'whenever I can'.

Quite often I find myself facing at least 2 opponents, and then I split attacks using Whirlwind Attack to get 2 attacks at full BAB. My AC is reasonably high, so the risk of taking extra damage is reduced, particularly when using Combat Expertise. And Spring Attack is just soo good in so many situations.

 

[hippos purros]

hah....this is a long time in the future that i find this thread buuuuut with this class you can effectively beat olidammara's crit range, in CW i think(might be sword and fist) theres a weapon called the bladed gauntlet thats stats are : damage>1d6: critical>17-20 /x2. if you throw on improved crit and the extra +2 crit range.... 17 turns to 13 with improved crit and the stacking +2 shows olidammara bested with an 11-20 crit range. take power critical((cw) +4 to confirming crits) and throw on a few bursts and telling strike(PHbII?) you can add sneak attack damage on crits soooo...heh... at twenty on a rogue5/fighter6/weapon master9(preferable human) thats what? on a crit of 11-20/x2(x3 with the ability and maxed damage from the other ability which name i forget,) thats 9d6+4d10+whatever your str may be(lets say 26 even) w/ specialization and enhancment bonuses (olets say a +5 weapon at twenty?, easily) thats 40+54+32= 126 damage for ONE hit...you tell me if its worth the class(and thats if you dont power attack my friends)

i like this class and i hope this has changed you nay-sayers minds too

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

Bladed Gauntlet was in S&F and the crit range was a misprint that was eratta'd to be 19-20/x2, IIRC.

I will say I freaking loved the concept of the Weapon Master PrC and it astounded me that it, the Lasher, Deepwood Sniper, and several other excellent 3.0 prestige classes never got touched again.

 

[Dandu]

Not even in Dragon?