[+] [3.x/PF] Ways to play the Assassin

[Particle_Man]

I like the idea of the Assassin class but was wondering whether the Assassin Death Attack ability is something best reserved for solo operations (maybe scouting ahead, maybe out and out paid assassinations) rather than something to try in the heat of combat. For one thing, three rounds of prep can be a long time in a combat, and for another, unless there is amazing party coordination there is a chance that some other party member will slay your intended target, forcing you to start over with a new target.

But I am open to hearing about tips on how to use the Death Attack in the heat of combat. And if not, well rogue SA is a pretty good plan B. Or I could just use Bardic Music if I go that route. Singer by day, Killer by night!

Oh, the reason I put the [+] in there is that I really, really don't want to read a comment like "Play a Slayer instead". This is about the Assassin class, not another class. It is not as if we are in Tier 1 territory anyhow, so I see no need to give up the class but rather want to see how to use it efficiently and effectively.

 

[LuisCarlos17f]

My suggestion is a mixture of ideas from the pathfinder slayer (hybrid class), the shadow assasin (D&D 4th Ed) and a shadowcaster version of the lurker from the complete psionic. I imagine the assasin like a rogue with spell-like martial maneuvers linked to shadow powers. (do you remember the martial adepts from "Tome of Battle: book of nine swords", and the shadow hand school?).

 

[Particle_Man]

Dude. Read the last paragraph of my OP. You just posted exactly what I said that I really, really don't want to read.

I want to hear about tactics. Imagine that you *have* to play a 3rd edition or Pathfinder DMG Assassin (all 10 levels!). How would you play it?

 

[Deset Gled]

Having played an assassin in 3.5 before, I feel your pain about the 3 round wait. It's particularly annoying because it's measured in rounds, meaning you technically have to start combat to "observe". There's not a RAW method for studying outside of combat. This caused a number of encounters where I would force "combat mode" by doing something silly like throwing a rock at a bird to start a commotion, but stay hiding to watch the target. Eventually the DM eased up on this restriction a bit just to make things easier on everyone.

In general, my assassin used Hide in Plain Sight a lot. It was my primary method of getting death attacks in - cheaper than burning invisibility spells. The hide skill can be kind of annoying as its rules are a little on the fuzzy side, but once it started getting heavy use the group developed a rapport about it that seemed to work.

Hiding also forced the group to plan combat out a bit more. It caused two big problems. First, if the other players killed the target I was going to death attack, it wasted all my effort. This meant we had to know ahead of time who I would be focused on. Admittedly, there were also a few meta-game moments where we discussed this when we shouldn't have been able to (in character). Second, it meant that I would be absent from combat for the first few rounds. The only real solution to this is to pay attention and just give up on the death attack if things aren't going to plan and you need to jump in to assist. A hidden sneak attack can still be powerful.

I used the Arcane Strike feat heavily. I burned more spells using it on sneak/death attacks than I did casting.

That's all I can think of right now. Hope this helps.

 

[Particle_Man]

Thanks for the reply, Deset Gled. So it does seem that playing an assassin requires aid from the group to be maximally effective, so the idea of deceiving one's own party about one being an assassin would be difficult to roleplay without losing effectiveness.

 

[Greenfield]

A few thoughts on this.

First, obviously, don't depend on the Death Attack. It's a neat signature move for the class, but as you've pointed out it's rather specialized.

Second, "Rounds" occur all the time. Try casting a Mount spell out of combat. How long does it take? (Hint, it begins with an "R") We have used Summon Monster spells to get Earth Elementals to explore for us. Short distances, to be sure, because of the spell duration, but they can walk through earth and stone like fish swim, so if you're looking for something buried, they're great.

Third, the rules talk about having all around sight (i.e. you can't sneak up "behind" someone in combat because there's no "Facing" in combat). But unlike "Rounds", that really does apply only in combat. You can sneak up on someone from behind out of combat. And yeah, that makes guard duty a job with an even shorter life span.

So when I play the Assassin, since I'm also a Rogue I often take the lead/scout position when we travel. If I Spot someone in severe need of a knife in the ribs, say an enemy lookout, I'll fade into the nearest cover and advance slowly, Observing as I go. And yes, the rules say that you can take other actions while observing, so long as observation is the primary focus. We translated that into a penalty to other skills ranging from -5 to -10, depending on circumstance. DM's call, of course.

Depending on the situation the enemy lookout gets killed or paralyzed, and we proceed from there.

Over all though I prefer to play the assassin as the "useful friend", the guy who can get things done. There's a good book (fantasy fiction) called the Assassin's Apprentice. The main character is trained in what the King refers to as "the diplomacy of the blade".

Killing is part of the job, sometimes, but more often it's useful to be able to use poisons that only make someone subtly ill, to delay or impair an opponent. Not so bad that they suspect poison, just enough to influence events.

For me he's far more an RP character than a serious force in combat.

 

[Deset Gled]

Second, "Rounds" occur all the time.

That's just, like, you know, your opinion, man. It's actually very ambiguous. There are some odd things that can only happen in rounds, and there are things that can only happen outside of combat rounds, too. And determining when an encounter actually starts is definitively a gray area, designed to be left up to the DM. There's even a RotG article that goes into it: http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20051129a

What's relevant to this discussion, though, are two main things. First, an assassin must observe for 3 rounds, both because the rules text measures time this way and because (unfortunately) observation also "runs out" after 3 more rounds. It is critical to know how many actions the assassin can perform within these times, so this process must be handled within the round system.

Second, there are no specific rules on how to handle one character being aware of an encounter and another not for an extended period of time. There are rules for surprise, but that explicitly only covers one round, and so isn't particularly applicable to a hiding assassin. As a result of these two things, adjudicating the Death Attack ability is always going to end up walking a fuzzy line that borders on house rules.

Third, the rules talk about having all around sight (i.e. you can't sneak up "behind" someone in combat because there's no "Facing" in combat). But unlike "Rounds", that really does apply only in combat. You can sneak up on someone from behind out of combat. And yeah, that makes guard duty a job with an even shorter life span.

Unlike the above ambiguous case, this one is entirely a house rule. There simply are no rules for facing in 3.x, in or out of combat. That why your 3e miniatures walk in a line all facing the same way, instead of the 2e method where the guy at the end always walked backwards to protect against backstabbers. You can always add circumstance and cover modifiers as necessary to describe sneaking in situations with a blind spot, but that's not the same thing as adding facing rules.

 

[Greenfield]

Question: Can you cast a Summon Monster spell outside of combat? They do serve other purposes than meat shield, after all.

If you can cast that spell, outside of combat, then "Rounds" exit outside of combat.

Can a Bard use "Inspire Competence" outside of combat? That ability, like many others a Bard does requires concentration. Per the rules (PHB Page 31) the Bard must use a standard action *each round* to maintain that concentration. For that particular song the limit is two minutes (20 rounds). Other Bardic music effects specifically last 5 rounds unless the Bard has the Lingering Song feat, which extends it to 10.

Can a caster use Greater/Improved Invisibility to line up an attack sequence before Initiative is rolled? As in, plan a surprise attack? That spell's duration is measured in rounds, and it has valid uses prior to or outside of combat.

All of these things are in the rules. Not opinion, RAW.

On facing out of combat: In the DMG, page 8 (right up front) there's a sample of play where a player informs the DM that her character, while walking through a dungeon, is checking behind her regularly.

There are similar references elsewhere. Look under the examples for Paralyzation, when it refers to a paralyzed PC who "heard a sound behind him and all he could do was hope it's a friend".

Paralyzed character, not currently in combat, with a distinct facing.

So, again, the idea that there *is* character facing outside of combat isn't a "house rule" or an opinion. It's referenced within RAW. I'm sure there are more such references, but I'm at work and don't really have the time to research the whole thing right now.

In the spirit of open mindedness though, if you find a place in the rules that says rounds only exist in combat, or that characters have no facing outside of combat, then please feel free to cite them. I'm quite willing to be convinced, but it will take an actual rules citation to do it. Books and page numbers, or chapter/section-title is a good way.

 

[Grogg of the North]

The Assassin class is one of the many things that has led me to believe that not everything printed in them is intended for the players.

Three rounds sitting around studying your target is not exactly exciting gameplay. The only way I can see it getting a lot of use is if the party is in a big combat. Something like having the party take out an evil warlord and his army. During the great big melee, the assassin slips around to the back and studies the warlord to use his death attack.

Even then, I see the assasssin as a tool for the DM to use, not the PCs.

 

[Greenfield]

Trying to be fair: I've played pretty much every edition of D&D there is, and sometimes I get the different versions of the rules confused.

Deset Gled raised a fair point on facing. Can someone point me to tghe book/page in the 3.5 rules that covers this? Where it says that there is no facing? My search-fu must be weak because I can't seem to find it.