4 Stealthy PCs + 1 loud metal paladin = ??

[Hypersmurf]

One option is to get him armor of Shadow/Silent Moves, to help mitigate the big walking tincan syndrome.

The way the character's been described, though, he sounds like he's more likely to want Armor of Command - you know, the shiny, impressive, look-at-me armor ability that can't be painted over or hidden?

Rogue: "Here, Sir Loud'n'Metal - we pooled the cash we picked up from those trolls, and we bought you this new suit of armor that sort of blends into the background. Now you can skulk in the shadows with the rest of us!"
Paladin: "WHAT!?"

-Hyp.

 

[aurance]

I'm thrilled it works for you! Your post got me thinking, too, and that just sort of came out. Note that you can easily tie the bonus to move silently to level, or arrange for it to remove the armor check penalty from any armor the paladin wears. Since it isn't a "known quantity", it's easy to play around with and tweak.

Just make sure you give him enough challenges and enemies to make the bonus worthwhile. An adventure where they have to sneak into the fort of an enemy of the faith, and he only succeeds because of the bonus, would be especially fun.

Wait, you give him basically a free bonus (balanced by a role-playing restriction only), and reward him for using the bonus?

It's a really creative idea, but the other players may begin to resent this, and rightly so. Why should the paladin get for free what the others had to spend skill points on?

The adventure you describe in the second paragraph is perfect for a solo paladin thing. But in a party you have to consider power-parity.

I'd say the best way is to just have the paladin pay for items. Or, you can give the paladin sneak items as part of treasure, making sure other characters get items of equal advantage.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Wait, you give him basically a free bonus (balanced by a role-playing restriction only), and reward him for using the bonus?

It's a really creative idea, but the other players may begin to resent this, and rightly so. Why should the paladin get for free what the others had to spend skill points on?

"By the way... at the same time our Lord revealed to me your name and your part in His grand plan, He also charged me with reminding you about your tithe, and the tickets for the Clergymen's Ball next month, and your Social Club dues..."

-Hyp.

 

[Thresher]

How hard can it be to cast Silence 5' radius on him?
You can even get it in a wand!

 

[Zaruthustran]

Wait, you give him basically a free bonus (balanced by a role-playing restriction only), and reward him for using the bonus?

Yeah. I bet the Paladin player will think it's really cool and fun, and the rogue players (if they're of any quality) will agree and be happy for their friend--the player of the paladin. Though I bet their characters would resent the paladin's "freebie".

To your point: the DM that would give this cool curse/bonus to the Paladin is the kind of DM who would most likely give out other cool curse/bonuses to the the characters of the other players. Balancing them out, if you want to see it that way.

Or, if you wanted a strict accounting, you could even balance the curse/bonus by making the Paladin tithe a portion of his gold earnings (or deplete it through payouts to keep tabs on the guy who the secret was intended for, or other enemies), thus effectively requiring the character to pay for the mechanical benefit.

-z

 

[Steverooo]

As for social considerations, I'd leave that to peer pressure, but make it clear to the paladin that his code doesn't require being rigid about honesty.

Ah, Moral Relativism strikes, again!

"Additionally, a paladin's code requires that she respect legitimate authority, act with honor (not lying, not cheating, not using poison, and so forth), help those in need (provided they do not use the help for evil or chaotic ends), and punish those who harm or threaten innocents." Sentence 2, Code of Conduct, PHB:44 (emphasis mine).

Lying IS EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN by the Paladin's Code of Conduct. Gygax has said (in his thread on this board) that the Paladin is supposed to be the epitomy of the "Christian Knight", and we all know "Thou shalt not bear false witness" is one of the ten commandments.

So, yes, the Paladin's Code DOES require being "rigid" (A.K.A. Lawful) about honesty. Sorry, I've just seen this lie posted once too often...

 

[Norfleet]

Well, there's lying, and there's omission. The paladin should not lie, except in extremely extenuating circumstances, but it should be acceptable in most instances for him to simply omit things that are best left unsaid for the good of all involved.

However, Mister Loud and Clunky serves a stealthy group in an entirely seperate way: Bullet Magnet. The fact that the REST of the group is being stealthy will undoubtedly cause the most visible member of the group to become the center of attention. This may be exactly what the player wants. So let him have it. Either he WANTS to be the center of negative attention, and the rest of the party will happily let him do so, or he'll quickly opt for a more subtle approach in the face of a great deal of undesirable attention. A level or two of this will surely isolate exactly what it is the paladin's player is really after, and will let you know whether you should try Piratecat's method, or simply leave him to be Mr. Loud and Clunky.

 

[Piratecat]

To your point: the DM that would give this cool curse/bonus to the Paladin is the kind of DM who would most likely give out other cool curse/bonuses to the the characters of the other players. Balancing them out, if you want to see it that way.

An excellent point. You don't want to favor just one character. If you do something cool like this, make sure that every player has their turn in the spotlight. You'll also want to be sure that the paladin can never get to be as good at sneaking as the people pumping in skill points.

Silentspace is right on the money about my suggested bonus; I was thinking 3e and not 3.5, so my example of +10 is probably inappropriate. Making his armor have silent moves or shadow/silent moves is probably a better game mechanic.

I think my most important point of my suggestion is that cool magical effects can be treasure even when they aren't linked to an item. The Dm can give out less treasure to compensate, but end up with something far more memorable and interesting than just a set of magical armor. People get really locked into the mindset of "treasure must come from monsters." That's not really the case, and a non-combat treasure-equivalent award like this one can be easily balanced by being skimpier with loot in later encounters.

 

[Pyske]

Lying IS EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN by the Paladin's Code of Conduct.
[...]
So, yes, the Paladin's Code DOES require being "rigid" (A.K.A. Lawful) about honesty. Sorry, I've just seen this lie posted once too often...

Er, yes, so Dunjin, if you're concerned about following the text by the book, you probably shouldn't take my suggestion. Didn't mean to be misleading, there. As for myself, I may have to adopt Psion's signature about gaming philosophy.

. . . . . . . -- Eric

 

[Voadam]

Yeah. I bet the Paladin player will think it's really cool and fun, and the rogue players (if they're of any quality) will agree and be happy for their friend--the player of the paladin. Though I bet their characters would resent the paladin's "freebie".


-z

I would think it was the other way around, a player might feel slighted if others get freebee no cost bonuses and he doesn't, but a character probably would not blink at a divine champion getting another supernatural power from his god while he himself depends on quick wits or skill. Or he might be jealous of "divine cheating" but he would not distinguish between a balanced paladin's turn undead ability or his bonus silent aspect.