D&D 4E 4e and reality

[P1NBACK]

There is only one thing you bought up that I haven't really addressed conclusively in that post.

Lol. Sure man.

Except this:

So, you agree that a man (say a human fighter) should be allowed to grab a gargantuan angry mob of people? Just answer me that. Thanks.

 

[Aegeri]

I've already answered that, I've stated over and over and over that I would because I simply don't care (though I believe you can't grab creatures that are two size categories bigger than you - by RAW). I would make them have an interesting power or interaction, if I even felt the need to do so of course but not just say "No your power doesn't work". I mean when you're dissecting my posts do you actually note the arguments I've made?

 

[Someone]

So, you agree that a man (say a human fighter) should be allowed to grab a gargantuan angry mob of people? Just answer me that. Thanks.

Well, the human is Medium size, and unless I'm mistaken or missed some errata you can grab creatures up to one size bigger than you, so the rules say you can't and is therefore perfectly logical you can't.

 

[P1NBACK]

You would let a human fighter grapple a gargantuan mob.

As Someone points out, it's illogical. And, in the rules.

This is a perfect example of a DM needing to make a judgment call, with common sense. You tried to make it to the letter of the rule (because you forgot the rule) instead of using logic.

That's all I wanted to know. Thanks.

 

[Aegeri]

You would let a human fighter grapple a gargantuan mob.

They couldn't use the grapple power (it can't target creatures over two size categories) but their powers that allow them to grab as an effect I would - because the Brawler fighter actually needs to do this to function. I would possibly give them a power depending on my mood though, but actually I'm not sure why I would creature such a creature in the first place either. If I did the only acceptable gargantuan swarm is one composed entirely of tarrasques.

You tried to make it to the letter of the rule (because you forgot the rule) instead of using logic.

Grab as an action =/ grab as a power effect.

 

[Tony Vargas]

Cool. How did you grab it?

It's right there in the 'hit' line of Sperent's Coils, look it up if you don't believe me.

No, no, I know what you mean. No one asked me to, but I did describe it as Yuka leaning into the DD, disrupting it's vortex. Probably would've worked for prone or push, to, had he such a power, and assuming the DD can be knocked prone or pushed.

Encounters is pretty casual, and folks don't often go into detail describing their character's actions, but it occurred to me. The only other thing I remember someone bothering to describe as unusual was the Cosmic Sorcerer using a couple of blast attacks against an enemy backed up against some rocks - the player was unsure whether you could just launch a blast into a constrained space, assured that she could, she desribed the blast shooting into the sky as the wall of rock deflected it.

So, you agree that a man (say a human fighter) should be allowed to grab a gargantuan angry mob of people? Just answer me that. Thanks.

You can grab creatures one size class larger than you, so, no, you can't grab a gargantuan creature of any kind if you're size M. If the fighter's player feels he should be able to do something like that, he'll have to dig up something to model that ability which works on gargantuan creatures - like a power, feat or item (a Pinning weapon, for instance).

 

[P1NBACK]

They couldn't use the grapple power (it can't target creatures over two size categories) but their powers that allow them to grab as an effect I would - because the Brawler fighter actually needs to do this to function.

Not really. I didn't specific which. You just said you would.

Secondly, there was a brawler fighter in my current campaign (he died - no, not vs. a swarm he couldn't grab) and was never reduced to not functioning when he didn't grab. In fact, he grabbed only so often... There's only one At-Will, Grappling Strike if I recall.

Third, I would treat grabbing with the Grab action the same as grabbing with a power.

I would possibly give them a power depending on my mood though, but actually I'm not sure why I would creature such a creature in the first place either. If I did the only acceptable gargantuan swarm is one composed entirely of tarrasques.

Wrong. Gargantuan is a size. The tarrasque is already gargantuan. A horde of them would be much, much larger.

Check out Angry Mob (I linked it earlier, it's obvious you weren't reading my posts, so I understand you missing it) and Zombie Throng for an example of a huge swarm and one that is vulnerable to... You guess it. CRITICAL HITS!

It's a frickin crowd of zombies afterall.

 

[P1NBACK]

It's right there in the 'hit' line of Sperent's Coils, look it up if you don't believe me.

No, no, I know what you mean. No one asked me to, but I did describe it a Yuka leaning into the DD, disrupting it's vortex. Probably would've worked for prone or push, to, had he such a power, and assuming the DD can be knocked prone or pushed.

Encounters is pretty casual, and folks don't often go into detail describing their character's actions, but it occurred to me. The only other thing I remember someone bothering to describe as unusual was the Cosmic Sorcerer using a couple of blast attacks against an enemy backed up against some rocks - the player was unsure whether you could just launch a blast into a constrained space, assured that she could, she desribed the blast shooting into the sky as the wall of rock deflected it.

That sounds awesome. Good descriptions.

 

[Majoru Oakheart]

You would let a human fighter grapple a gargantuan mob.

As Someone points out, it's illogical. And, in the rules.

I disagree that it's illogical. I certainly could see a huge mob of villagers rampaging through town. You grab one of them and the rest of the mob gets so angry that you've got one of their friends that they refuse to leave until you let him go.

As for the rules on this, the general rules say you can't grab anything more than 1 size category larger than you. However, the brawler fighter's powers don't have that restriction. They can grab anything, regardless of size. And I''d allow it, if only because the brawler's entire character relies on being able to grab. He's much better at grabbing than just any old character.

 

[P1NBACK]

I disagree that it's illogical. I certainly could see a huge mob of villagers rampaging through town. You grab one of them and the rest of the mob gets so angry that you've got one of their friends that they refuse to leave until you let him go.

Lol. Ok. Clever.

As for the rules on this, the general rules say you can't grab anything more than 1 size category larger than you. However, the brawler fighter's powers don't have that restriction. They can grab anything, regardless of size. And I''d allow it, if only because the brawler's entire character relies on being able to grab. He's much better at grabbing than just any old character.

Why would his grab function any differently than when he makes a normal grab attack? Where in the rules does it say grab functions mechanically different if used in powers?

Now, you're breaking your own rules.

At least I'm basing it on fiction, you're just making up.

The only thing a Brawling Fighter gets is this:

While you wield a weapon in your primary hand and your off hand is free or grabbing a creature, you gain a +1 bonus to AC and a +2 bonus to Fortitude.

A bonus to defenses for keeping his free hand open.