4E is for casuals, D&D is d0med

[hong]

Sometimes it's fun to play checkers or Carcassone. Othertimes it's fun to play Advanced Civ or Age of Rennessance.

I'll drive 30 min to play the first couple of games. I'll drive a lot longer to play the others.

In MY day, generic food metaphors used ice cream and chocolate, and we LIKED it.

 

[pemerton]

In MY day, generic food metaphors used ice cream and chocolate, and we LIKED it.

On this occasion I will agree with you, Hong!

 

[ProfessorCirno]

Interesting bit from another of Malstrom's articles:

Sounds very familiar...

Sounds very wrong, too. Most video games these days are absolute crap, and that's not because of nostalgia goggles.

The problem with removing "obstacles" is that you also remove the reward of surmounting them. When there's no obstacles - when there's nothing to work for - then there's no reward.

Also, Family, you realize that 1) CAD is a horrible comic, and 2) B^U openly admits in a thread that he has NO IDEA what he's talking about with that comic, and he just made it to jump on the 4e bandwagon?

 

[Taloras]

Honestly? Ive looked thru the books over the last few days. I will NEVER play 4E. Period. End of story. The only thing this version has thats a redeeming factor is the pretty artwork.

Seriously, just looking at the book makes my head hurt. 3E was intuitve. It took me 30 minutes to learn to play. This? Ive been looking at the books for 3 days and cant figure it out. Simplified? Clearly not.

And im not alone in this. -everyone- i know IRL who has looked at 4E agrees that 4E killed D&D.

 

[Fenes]

The problem with removing "obstacles" is that you also remove the reward of surmounting them. When there's no obstacles - when there's nothing to work for - then there's no reward.

There are obstacles like the dragon in the way of saving the princess, or the four guards patrolling the perimeter of the target bunker - and there are obstacles like complicated and obscure rules or clumsy game controls and useless interfaces.

People often confuse the two.

 

[Family]

Family, you realize that 1) CAD is a horrible comic, and 2) B^U openly admits in a thread that he has NO IDEA what he's talking about with that comic, and he just made it to jump on the 4e bandwagon?

1.) This particular comic was not.
2.) There's lots of room!

 

[FireLance]

Sounds very wrong, too. Most video games these days are absolute crap, and that's not because of nostalgia goggles.

I thought the key point of the quote was not so much on nostaligia or the quality of video games today versus yesterday, but that experienced gamers may consider some of the obstacles in a game to be features while many non-gamers consider them to be bugs (and are hence non-gamers, at least with respect to that game), and that experienced gamers consider them to be features because they are emotionally invested in their ability to overcome them.

The problem with removing "obstacles" is that you also remove the reward of surmounting them. When there's no obstacles - when there's nothing to work for - then there's no reward.

One good rule of thumb would be to determine whether the game succeeds because of the obstacle or in spite of it. If the latter, you can get rid of it without affecting most people's enjoyment of the game.

 

[Kid Charlemagne]

Sounds very wrong, too. Most video games these days are absolute crap, and that's not because of nostalgia goggles.

Pong is the one true game. All others are pale imitations of the real thing.

 

[Mathew_Freeman]

Noobs still won't put in the effort to learn a game with a 300+ page rulebook. Not going to happen.

Um, every player did this at some point, surely?

 

[Dlsharrock]

Shut up! Pong sucks. Pong 4e is the way of the future. Mind you, opinion seems to be divided as to whether Pong 4e really is Pong anymore. The bats have been simplified and the kind of people you meet at Pong conventions aren't nearly as smelly as they used to be.