D&D 4E 4E is like WoW (NOT!)

[AllisterH]

One of the complaints about 4E is that it plays like WoW. While trying to dodge the issue of whether or not this is a bad thing, I'm actually disputing that statement.

4E plays NOTHING like WoW. Have people EVER played WoW when they make this statement?

The closest analogue to 4E's combat system is Tactical RPGs like Disgaea and Final Fantasy Tactics. The real-time nature of current RPGs and of MMORPGs makes it impossible to translate the "placement is essential" nature of 4E classes.

Why the rant?

Well, I read something that finally made me break down.
"Monsters running in to join the encounter makes sense--especially given a) the scenario and b) recent 3.5 adventures--but it still feels like drawing aggro in an MMO. I'm not sure how I feel about that."

WAIT, you mean to tell me I was drawing aggro SINCE 1st edition?

 

[Harr]

That's pretty funny considering that 'drawing aggro' is an attempt by MMORPGs to imitate the more life-like monster behavior found in tabletop games, not vice-versa.

I think this comes from the same mentality that has people try to correct someone when they dont pronounce über as 'oober'.. the other way around is just more popular, so has taken over as the standard.

 

[keterys]

I'd hope so - I remember the kender taunting a dragon off someone, people scrambling to stop a running monster from bringing reinforcements, and monsters 'calling for help'... all staples of MMOs.

I've been playing an MMO, all this time. Even before they existed!

 

[ChaosShard]

I've heard "WotC is trying to make D&D into MtG, because that's their game, and..." since 3e came out in 2000.

In answer to your (possibly rhetorical) question, I doubt most of the people comparing the two have played WoW, or if they did, for more than a few minutes on a friend's account. Certainly, you can find commonality between the two if you look for it, but I don't see anything that screams "We're making 4e as a tabletop clone of WoW."

Monsters heard you fighting from the next room and came to help their friends? That's less like WoW than you can imagine. If you, and what you're fighting, stay out of another creature's aggro radius, it'll ignore you. It'll ignore your battle. It'll even ignore it's buddies getting cut to ribbons within its LOS, and walk over their corpses without a care in the world. I have never played a PnP RPG where that was the case.

/45+ days played on my Dwarf Warrior alone, working on a hunter with the mrs. and her priest

 

[Zinovia]

The parallels that do exist have been drawn many times before.
Here's a quick recap:
• Class roles like Striker (DPS), Defender (Tank), Leader (Healer/Buffer), and Controller (CC).
• Named powers for all classes.
• Marking foes (hunter's mark, raid marking).
• Abilities that let the tanks hold aggro.
• Paragon Paths = talent builds.

The example you mention isn't a good parallel between D&D and WoW. Having monsters running in to join the fight and aid their compatriots is just what you would expect in a D&D game. What is WoW-like (and unrealistic) is for mobs to stand there not helping their buddies because they are out of aggro range, even if they are in line of sight. They just ignore you slaughtering their 3 friends, but will attack as soon as you get closer to them.

So yes, there are features that both games share, and some valid comparisons to be made, but "pulling aggro" isn't one of those. There are no threat-meters or spells to reduce your threat when you're DPS'ing too hard or get a string of lucky criticals. The bad guys are controlled by a person, not an AI, and the DM will try and have them attack whoever is logical for them to attack, rather than the person with the highest numeric threat.

I have played MMORPGs including WoW for a number of years, and I don't think D&D is in any danger of turning into WoW. Except for the big shoulder armor.

 

[Will]

Der, 4e is TOTALLY turning into WoW! Consider these elements of WoW that 4e is RIPPING OFF:

WoW has paladins, druids, priests (though 4e has renamed them clerics, but SAME THING), mages (wizards, ditto), rogues, and warlocks!

WoW has dwarves, elves, gnomes, and humans, JUST LIKE 4E!!!!


TOTALLY a copy.

And don't get me started on that Tolkien hack...

 

[EATherrian]

The parallels that do exist have been drawn many times before.
Here's a quick recap:
• Class roles like Striker (DPS), Defender (Tank), Leader (Healer/Buffer), and Controller (CC).
• Named powers for all classes.
• Marking foes (hunter's mark, raid marking).
• Abilities that let the tanks hold aggro.
• Paragon Paths = talent builds.

The example you mention isn't a good parallel between D&D and WoW. Having monsters running in to join the fight and aid their compatriots is just what you would expect in a D&D game. What is WoW-like (and unrealistic) is for mobs to stand there not helping their buddies because they are out of aggro range, even if they are in line of sight. They just ignore you slaughtering their 3 friends, but will attack as soon as you get closer to them.

So yes, there are features that both games share, and some valid comparisons to be made, but "pulling aggro" isn't one of those. There are no threat-meters or spells to reduce your threat when you're DPS'ing too hard or get a string of lucky criticals. The bad guys are controlled by a person, not an AI, and the DM will try and have them attack whoever is logical for them to attack, rather than the person with the highest numeric threat.

I have played MMORPGs including WoW for a number of years, and I don't think D&D is in any danger of turning into WoW. Except for the big shoulder armor.

Like you I've played WoW and other MMOs for a long time and I agree that there are parallels. I just think people are missing the big picture here: pretty much all art is stolen. WoW stole from the earlier games which stole from D&D which stole from wargames which I'm sure stole ideas from somewhere else. If a game company sees something they think is cool and they can implement it in a fresh or just legal way they should. This is the evolution of gaming and there's nothing that will change it. My only problem is that aside from the good things I think they are stealing bad things like silly naming.

 

[Nytmare]

I think this comes from the same mentality that has people try to correct someone when they dont pronounce über as 'oober'.. the other way around is just more popular, so has taken over as the standard.

What's the "other" way?

 

[ChaosShard]

Except for the big shoulder armor.

My warrior has these shoulders which always look as though the huge spikes will drive straight through his head

Big shoulders: They look cool, but they're totally impractical

 

[Nosey Goblin]

Der, 4e is TOTALLY turning into WoW! Consider these elements of WoW that 4e is RIPPING OFF:

WoW has paladins, druids, priests (though 4e has renamed them clerics, but SAME THING), mages (wizards, ditto), rogues, and warlocks!

WoW has dwarves, elves, gnomes, and humans, JUST LIKE 4E!!!!


TOTALLY a copy.

And don't get me started on that Tolkien hack...

Hehehehe. You, sir, are made of win.


And by the by, there are elements of WoW in 4e, just like there were elements of 3e in WoW. The nature of the beast is that Fantasy MMORPGs and TTRPGs are similar enough that there will be cross-over.


Shane