D&D 4E 4E PHB II & DMG II 1 year after release (and a new one every year after that)

[Khairn]

Uhm...I can kind of understand where you're coming from, but...WotC isn't my or majority of the poster's friends. It's a company, and I haven't seen anyone called out by name, so I think if people feel a certain way about WotC then they are perfectly valid in exspressing they're opinion, just as you are in oposing said opinions. However to try and shift it so that it falls in the realm of some kind of personal attacks against the particular people you listed isn't fair.

At the end of the day these people are working for a company they do not own, so my comments or whatever are solely based upon their capacity in that area. If this wasn't the case, an NDA wouldn't mean squat and everything would be public knowledge...instead Hasbro runs things and makes the big decisions, period. For better or worse they really are it's mouthpiece.

Thanks Imaro. I couldn't have said it better. Except for the "mouthpeice", although I do understand what you are trying to say.

Mouse, I have never called anyone out by name specifically because I know they work for a company and oftentimes what they know of future plans and what they are able to communicate is controlled by other people. If I have offended any of the individuals I am truly sorry.

 

[Mouseferatu]

However to try and shift it so that it falls in the realm of some kind of personal attacks against the particular people you listed isn't fair.

Sorry, but it is a personal attack. These people have been coming onto the forums--taking time out of very busy schedules--to talk to their customers, even though doing so is not part of their jobs. (Except Scott.)

Assuming that "WotC is lying" means assuming these people are lying. There's no way around it.

Hasbro runs things and makes the big decisions, period. For better or worse they really are it's mouthpiece.

My understanding, actually, is that Hasbro normally leaves WotC alone to run itself, except for a few very specific instances.

But even if I'm mistaken and that's not the case, all they had to do is not answer questions about how necessary the DnDI would be. It's not like omission is all that hard. But they have specifically come out to tell us--in a forum where they aren't obligated to talk to us at all--that it's not going to be required.

Whether or not people agree with certain decisions they've made, I think they've more than earned the benefit of the doubt where outright honesty is concerned.

 

[Mouseferatu]

But all right. If people want a less personal reason, consider this:

If we cannot at least accept, for discussion's sake, that the information we're getting is accurate, then we have no common ground to continue any of these conversations. It becomes impossible to have a meaningful discussion about the DnDI tools, or what we'd like to do with them, or what the future of the game looks like, because there's no baseline to work from, and because every time one group starts talking about how cool the adventure creator (or whatever) looks, someone else is going to charge in with wild accusations and ruin the thread for everyone.

All we have of 4E so far is what we've been told. If we can't even accept that, and use it as a common starting point, what the hell are we all talking about?

 

[Jer]

Uhm...I can kind of understand where you're coming from, but...WotC isn't my or majority of the poster's friends. It's a company, and I haven't seen anyone called out by name, so I think if people feel a certain way about WotC then they are perfectly valid in exspressing they're opinion, just as you are in oposing said opinions. However to try and shift it so that it falls in the realm of some kind of personal attacks against the particular people you listed isn't fair.

Except that, if you go by the assumption that "WotC" is going to make D&D Insider mandatory for people to play 4e, someone has to design the game such that D&DI is mandatory to play it.

The people who are in charge of designing the game are the people who are telling us that DDI WON'T be mandatory.

Therefore you kind of have to be saying that the designers are lying to us to maintain the position that WotC is making D&DI necessary to use 4e. It's not like "WotC" is some kind of demonic entity that can change the game rules towards its own nefarious ends independent of the designers and developers who work for the company.

 

[Ankh-Morpork Guard]

Specific names aren't being called...but specific quotes FROM these people are.

To Ari, methinks that's close enough and I can understand it.

For me, I think that if you're going to go so far as to not trust ANYTHING WotC says...why even believe 4e is coming at all?

 

[Charwoman Gene]

*** DECIDED NOT TO BE BANNED ***

 

[variant]

They should save all the half-races for later books then. Make the core races Human, Elf, Halfling, and Dwarf. Although I believe Gnome should be in there also.

 

[Glyfair]

Specific names aren't being called...but specific quotes FROM these people are.

To Ari, methinks that's close enough and I can understand it.

For me, I think that if you're going to go so far as to not trust ANYTHING WotC says...why even believe 4e is coming at all?

I think this is an interesting discussion, and wouldn't mind discussing this mindset, and all the levels that exist out there (such as the "fan" who cried "die, die, die" to a WotC employee at GenCon). This isn't the topic of this thread though, maybe start a new one? (assuming the discussion can go on without getting out of hand, which I'm not certain of).

*** DECIDED NOT TO BE BANNED ***

Good decision

 

[Kae'Yoss]

So, $120 a year to access DNDI.

Or less. They said they were looking into payment models, including paying for, say, a whole year, and getting a discount.

Which you will probably need to access to play the game properly

I doubt it. How are they going to do that? Sell half books? They know they could totally not get away with that even if they wanted.

... That is like buying 3-4 books a year. afterwhich I own. At the end of year, I have nothing to show now.

Except all the digital issues of the magazines, which you will very likely be able to print out and to save on your HD.

Beyond that, sure, the other things won't stick around - the ability to store characters online and use the virtual gaming table and the gaming lists.

But then again, not every form of entertainment will give you something to show for it except memories. This one gives you memories and computer file.

that if for some reason I don't want to pay anymore, I can no longer play the game, because I no longer have access to all the new content they came out with after I bought my first PHB...

I think it's more likely that once you "buy" an article (as part of your monthly subscription), that article is yours. Sure, you'll probably lose access to the special online tools, but you won't lose the new classes and spells and all that.

I will guarentee that they Players handbook will be a Complete NEW Players Handbook every year. Not a PHB2.

Can you give me that in writing? So I can sue you should they release new player's handbooks that supplement, and not replace, the first one

Seriously: Have you been around when they released the 3.5 core rules? That was several years after 3.0, and lots of people were quite piddled. I doubt that they could pull off one revision per year without losing far money (because peopel would quit) than they'd gain by people buying all those books.

 

[Imaro]

Except that, if you go by the assumption that "WotC" is going to make D&D Insider mandatory for people to play 4e, someone has to design the game such that D&DI is mandatory to play it.

The people who are in charge of designing the game are the people who are telling us that DDI WON'T be mandatory.

Therefore you kind of have to be saying that the designers are lying to us to maintain the position that WotC is making D&DI necessary to use 4e. It's not like "WotC" is some kind of demonic entity that can change the game rules towards its own nefarious ends independent of the designers and developers who work for the company.

First, for the record, I never agreed with or disagreed with Devyn's statement. What I disagree with is the fact that Devyn is talking about the trustworthiness or lack thereof of a company, a singular entity...and mouse seems to want to imply he is questioning the integrity of particular people. When they make comments or statements in their capacity as representatives of WotC, they are being paid to represent that corporation in the manner which those who run said corporation expect them to. Whether it is true or false cannot be properly ascertained until actual action is taken. Until then I see no problem with an opinion(negative or positive) on what they will do from each individuals perspective.

Specific names aren't being called...but specific quotes FROM these people are.

To Ari, methinks that's close enough and I can understand it.

For me, I think that if you're going to go so far as to not trust ANYTHING WotC says...why even believe 4e is coming at all?

This is totally beside the point...Once again they are responding, and being paid as representatives of WotC and may not know the complete vision for D&D 4e themselves. If they make a false statement because they don't know the actual plan, or have been misinformed themselves...is it any less false? Where has Devyn posted a specific quote, he has repeatedly given only his own conjecture, which at this point is just as valid as anyone else's.

If you don't agree with him, cool, post a counter argument or ignore him. But he hasn't broken the CoC so he has a right to express his views of WotC.