D&D 4E 4E requisites

[Troll Wizard]

FWIW I believe 4th edition will come sooner than later; 2008-2009. For one I very highly doubt that WOTC (or Hasbro) will wait until 3.5 product sales decline. I believe it would be better to introduce a major refresh of the ruleset while the game is still popular and not in a market decline.
Another good reason for it to come out sooner, is developer/designer fatigue with the current baseline of the ruleset. Eventually the designers will come to the opinion that the current baseline has exhausted most of its options. The baseline needs to be changed, so that new posssiblities for options may be found.
Lastly, while WOTC has expanded its goals of attracting new players, its main player/consumer base continues to age and gain disposable income. There only limit is time not money. At least in my case, I can purchase significantly more products then I can ever read let alone ever use in my campaign. Thus it would not surprise me to see 4th edition come out with additional higher end products (premier editions of books, high quality minis, etc.). Tomes that feature, better quality material (leather covers), richer colorful art work, and thicker overall page count, $50-$75. I don't know how well their leather bound books sold, but I have see quite a few around, and those who have them use them at the gaming table without reservation.

What I would not mind seeing;
1. Make "magic" special

2. Slower level climbing

3. Redo metamagic feat system, good idea, but needs a rewrite

4. Make high-level play (>10) fun, right now I pretty lose all interest in running or playing a game past 10th level

5. Use feat chains to create specific character modes off the baseline core classes versus prestige classes.

What I don't care for:
1. Psionics
2. Gestalt
3. Retraining
4. Template characters, e.g., draconic vampiric shadowmoon elf mage....

 

[Allandaros]

This is going to sound rather petty in comparison to all the crunchy stuff above...but the art. The 3.* Edition art has never been as evocative or interesting as the older editions. I realize that there's a lot of personal bias in this, but... *shrugs*

Also, small stat blocks. I'm a 2E player; stat blocks, even for the BBEGs, take up maybe 4 lines at maximum. Every time I've looked at a 3.*e statblock, it's at least 6 or 7 lines.

 

[drothgery]

I've been toying around with the idea of building the class list so that the core classes are one each for the basic four D&D roles (arcane caster, divine caster, warrior, and skill guy) and one each for all two-role combos.

So the basic four:
arcane => wizard
divine => priest (closest existing WotC class is the cloistered cleric from UA)
warrior => fighter
skill => rogue

then
arcane/divine => theurge*
arcane/warrior => duskblade*
arcane/skill => beguiler*
divine/warrior => cleric
divine/skill => archivist*
warrior/skill => scout*

* names subject to change, should have a fair amount of flexibility in most of the hash classes; frex, the warrior/skill guy should be just as good for a 'swashbuckler' as for a non-spellcasting 'ranger'

Other notes
- all casters are spontaneous casters
- theurge, priest, wizard, and archivist would have an expandable spellbook/prayerbook
- duskblade, beguiler, and cleric would have a small, fixed list where they know everything (cleric would also get some deity-specific spells ala 3.x domains)
- skill list would be slightly consolidated, and everyone would get more skill points
- no more d4 hit dice
- PrCs would be in the PH -> bard, monk, paladin

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

However, because of the OGL, closing up 4E might be a bad move, anyway, since the OGL would work against them, in that case. Monte Cook talked about some of this in one of his journal entries. I think he called it exactly right when he said "...interesting times."

I expect to see fully functional 3.5 clones coming out when 4E hits, with variations based on the "improvements" proferred by the various publishers (everything in one book, some rules streamlined, etc.).

If one of those alternatives is sufficiently impressive, I'll likely choose that fork in the road instead of 4E, if 4E is closed and not at least as similar as 3.5E is to 3E.

 

[ColonelHardisson]

No thank you! I absolutely hate Psionics in a fantasy game. They ruin the atmosphere for me. Magic Users who use a magic form of Telekenisis? That's fine but no Psionics.

Maybe they should simply rename it and call it Mind Magic or Mana Magic or some-such, because psionics are just another type of magic, and people seem to get hung up on the name.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Maybe they should simply rename it and call it Mind Magic or Mana Magic or some-such, because psionics are just another type of magic, and people seem to get hung up on the name.

Just as many people insist on the name, so the wheel goes round and round.

This is all Katherine Kurtz's fault!

 

[ColonelHardisson]

But ... as long as we're being hypothetical ... to me the number one non-negotiable thing is -- adequate computer support.

Yeah, and that's where the ball was really dropped with 3e. Any 4e would do well to have a software package available upon its release. I want something like what eTools was supposed to have been - a package which could be used for rules reference, map generation, PC, monster, and NPC generation, and adventure writing, which could then be used to format and print everything to look like it was professionally written.

 

[Goblyn]

This is all Katherine Kurtz's fault!

WHy is that? Did she coin the term or something?

/ignorance

What would I like to see in a 4e game?

lots of fun. Anything else I could prefer has already been adequately covered, as far as I can tell right now.

 

[PapersAndPaychecks]

Streamlining; reduction in DM preparation time; in combat, more player decisions for less die rolls (which means massively overhauling the AoO rules to create a streamlined, quick-resolved system); and quicker character generation with less micromanagement of options (which means chopping the feats system to bits).

In fact, generally less micromanagement of everything would be good. CRs are a case in point, I hold that those rules are completely unnecessary.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

WHy is that? Did she coin the term or something?

/ignorance

She created the first popular psychic fantasy series and coincidentally, it was popular when AD&D was starting to come together. It's unlikely AD&D would have had psionics without her.

(Now, if there was no Lord of the Rings, and AD&D was more like Edgar Rice Burroughs, it might be a different story.)