D&D 4E 4e Special Ability PER Encounter stinks...

[Raven Crowking]

There is absolutely no reason to think that an "encounter" has to be defined as "all the figures on the board". In this case, it's just as easy to think of the encounter as being the wiz zapping the one guard. The fact that nobody else is doing any actual fighting or, indeed, any interaction with the environment at all, should be a clue.

Except nowhere did I say that nobody else is doing any interaction with the environment. What if the rogue is sneaking past some guards, while the bard tries to bluff his way past others, while the wizard huffs in the corner and catches his breath?

See, you wouldn't have this problem if you didn't have 36 round battles.

IOW, this works very well so long as you limit your campaign and campaign world accordingly.

No thank you!

 

[hong]

Except nowhere did I say that nobody else is doing any interaction with the environment.

To be precise, nowhere did you say that anybody else is doing any interaction with the environment.

What if the rogue is sneaking past some guards, while the bard tries to bluff his way past others, while the wizard huffs in the corner and catches his breath?

Then you have coordination problems that extend well beyond just saying whether the wiz is catching his breath. In this case, the obvious solution would be that for the narrow technical purpose of recovering abilities, all of these are individual encounters going on simultaneously. The whole point of having a deliberately flexible approach like "per encounter" is to avoid semantic arguments about corner cases, instead leaving it up to the DM to decide based on commonsense.

IOW, this works very well so long as you limit your campaign and campaign world accordingly.

No, it works very well for situations that are likely to come up in practice. In situations that are less likely, it takes judgement. And I will bet money that 36-round fights will be vanishingly unlikely in 4E, just as they were in 3E.

No thank you!

Yes, thank you.

 

[Raven Crowking]

In this case, the obvious solution would be that for the narrow technical purpose of recovering abilities, all of these are individual encounters going on simultaneously.

Oh, that's much easier than saying "recharges with 1 minute's (10 rounds') rest".

The whole point of having a deliberately flexible approach like "per encounter" is to avoid semantic arguments about corner cases, instead leaving it up to the DM to decide based on commonsense.

Examples where "per encounter" is better than "recharges with 1 minute's (10 rounds') rest"?

No, it works very well for situations that are likely to come up in practice.

Glad you're convinced (or that the situations that come up in your practice are so limited?), but I am not.


RC

 

[Ozmar]

That makes no sense. If the time frame of one encounter is 10 seconds and the bugger gets his powers back then the next encounter takes 2 hours he doesn't get his powers back before then?

That is a big temporal discrepency here.

Just do this, then: any "per encounter" ability can be recharged with one minute's concentration or rest. So if anyone wants to take 10 straight full-round actions to recharge his "per encounter" abilities, then he can.

That accomplishes the same thing, and bypasses this "temporal discrepency" problem that you seem to have.

-Ozmar the Compromiser

Edit: Ah... of course someone already suggested that. I thought the thread was shorter...

-Ozmar the Impatient

 

[hong]

Oh, that's much easier than saying "recharges with 1 minute's (10 rounds') rest".

In practice, yes, because you can intuit when the encounter (an episode of significant interaction with the environment) begins and ends, without having to worry about counting timers.

Examples where "per encounter" is better than "recharges with 1 minute's (10 rounds') rest"?

Yes. Who cares about timers?

Glad you're convinced (or that the situations that come up in your practice are so limited?), but I am not.

Please demonstrate that your lack of being convinced is a matter of interest to anybody except yourself.

 

[Raven Crowking]

Please demonstrate that your lack of being convinced is a matter of interest to anybody except yourself.

It seems to me that you are trying to provoke a fight, rather than discuss a topic. Come back with something better than a large animated gif, and I'll respond. Otherwise, I'll be ignoring your future posts on this topic.

RC

 

[Umbran]

Please demonstrate that your lack of being convinced is a matter of interest to anybody except yourself.

Hong, this is a discussion board. I have no idea what you thought you'd be seeing, but you should expect to see the opinions of others, and treat them with respect. If you want to continue, cut the snarky attitude, please.

 

[Pbartender]

There's a lot of people worried that spells will be practically cast at will, remember that the designers have already said that there will be "at will", "per encounter", and "per day". Presumably, those categories are segregated by the relative powers of the spells/class abilities.

So, it's likely we'll be seeing a Wizard's spell list, for example, that might look something like:

At Will
Detect Magic
Read Magic
Daze
Light
Ray of Frost
Mage Hand
Arcane Mark
Prestidigitation

Per Encounter (1 minute recharge)
Shield
Mage Armor
Sleep
Magic Missile
Color Spray
Expeditious Retreat

Per Day (8 hour recharge)
Resist Energy
Web
Invisibility
Knock

 

[Asmor]

You don't need to define an encounter. You just say what is and is not an encounter. To steal a quote about obscenity, "I know it when I see it."

 

[Geron Raveneye]

You don't need to define an encounter. You just say what is and is not an encounter. To steal a quote about obscenity, "I know it when I see it."

Oh boy can I see the "DM's fiat" flames rising from a concept like that. I have to admit, I much prefer something like "recharge takes 1 standard round/1 minute" or something like that, because that's less cause for heated arguments (and don't anybody tell me roleplayers are reasonable adults who are able to come to calm solutions about stuff like that ) than something like "The DM will tell you when an encounter has finished and you can recharge your abilities".