4E with 1E Feel: Does that appeal to you?

[ExploderWizard]

See, I still think rogue is a viable archetype. Characters like Fafihrd, Bilbo, Aladdin, Robin Hood, Antilicus, and such is a fun and worthy of playing. The problem with removing the thief/rogue class is that these characters become something... else. Fafhrd the magic-user? Bilbo the Fighter? I don't care how you give thief skills to them, they still end up awkward.

YMMV, of course, but Thief is too iconic to me to remove. Perhaps D&D wasn't born with it, but I think its stuck with it now.

(Grumble, Get rid my favorite class Grumble)

I loved playing thieves, no doubt I'm with you there. Its when the designers decided to put the thief on equal combat ground as a sustained damage dealer that it all fell apart.

 

[Lanefan]

All I can offer here is my recently-started experiment in retconning and running 4e's Keep on the Shadowfell adventure in a 1e game. I skipped all the preamble stuff and the Kobolds, as the party had other reasons to go to the main temple-ruin area...and, 2 sessions ago, in they went.

So far, their point of furthest advance is about 4 rooms in and the dungeon is winning hands down; they've been driven out twice on two attempts and are currently outdoors again. That said, the party have one big advantage going for them and one big disadvantage going against them: in their favour, they're a big (10 characters) group and thus can sometimes win by sheer force of numbers; in their disfavour, they put the "fun" in disfunctional to the point they can't tie their shoelaces without getting into a sometimes-deadly argument (though one of the main agitators got killed - by the party - last session so the arguments *should* ease off somewhat from here on).

Anyway, back on topic...the adventure design itself certainly has a 1e feel to me...it's dangerous, it's a dungeon crawl, not everything makes sense being where it is and why, and so on. But just retconning the opponents is a fair amount of work...I don't want to think what it'd take to retcon the whole 4e system!

It might almost work better (and be easier!) to go the other way: start with 1e and add in some 4e elements of your choice e.g. sliding-shifting, per-encounter abilities, overnight healing, much shorter duration on sit-out spells, higher starting hit points, etc. as you see fit.

Lanefan

 

[Thunderfoot]

I don't get this. By about 5th level in 1e you are a god. Very, very little can kill you in melee. The only reason 1e was so dangerous was the large number of save or die effects. In terms of relative power, 1ed characters are extremely powerful. There's a reason you can wade your 2nd level party through 20 orcs and expect to win.

I would LOVE to know what game YOU were playing.

I only ever had one character SURVIVE to 9th level. He was a legend in his own mind because of that fact. Looking at my 1e MM right now I see 3 very dangerous monsters in the 5th level range. Carrion Crawler HD 3+1 (ok a little light here) # of Attacks: 8 each one capable of paralyzing someone. A party of 6 characters could conceivably be one-shotted by a single carrion crawler.
Catobleapas HD:6+2 Special attack:Gaze causes DEATH!!
Ghoul HD:3 #of Atks:3 Dam:1-3/1-3/1-6 + paralysis again a couple of these and a party could be screwed.

 

[GoodKingJayIII]

I like 4e a lot. I think it's a solid foundation, lacking in some content.

I confess I don't know exactly what "1e feel" is, and some posters' definitions don't line up with one another. It sounds like something that's not easy to nail down. But if it improves the game, then I'm all for it.

 

[Simon Atavax]

I like 4e a lot. I think it's a solid foundation, lacking in some content.

I confess I don't know exactly what "1e feel" is, and some posters' definitions don't line up with one another. It sounds like something that's not easy to nail down. But if it improves the game, then I'm all for it.

1e feel:

Not 1e feel:

1e feel:

Not 1e feel:

And if that don't explain it, son, then I can't help ya.

 

[justanobody]

And if that don't explain it, son, then I can't help ya.

Might as well just throw in Frank Frazetta's Death Dealer while you are at it, since it seems to be where Lord Soth most closely resembles. But that is a BIG part of the 1E feel for sure!

Got to love the Magic Mouth image.

 

[Treebore]

This REALLY should be a poll.

My answer: Possibly... but it would need A LOT of revisions.

Yep, that covers it.

 

[Korgoth]

Got to love the Magic Mouth image.

An all-time classic. Note the pair of eyes at the bottom of the stairs!

 

[justanobody]

An all-time classic. Note the pair of eyes at the bottom of the stairs!

Yup, those motorcycle rider touches of imagery are so classic fantasy genre. Even the grainy pixelated look has a style to it. Something sort of lacking in the new CG and vector look graphics of today.

 

[Mercule]

YMMV, of course, but Thief is too iconic to me to remove. Perhaps D&D wasn't born with it, but I think its stuck with it now.

Agreed. I think you could more easily have "D&D" after removing the cleric than you could after removing the thief/rogue.