4e/WotC: Pro- or Anti- why do you care?

[Azgulor]

I am curious how you reconcile these statements.

If someone starts a topic "Why pick PF?", you say you will make the case for PF.

But then you say you're not interested in evangelizing Pathfinder, and that you don't see a reason to bother unless you are recruiting for your local game, and that games have already been selected.

So, I am guessing you see a difference between making a case for PF, and other people making a case for the game they prefer. I am not seeing a difference though, and I suspect whatever you're feeling that makes you want to post a case for PF, is the same others are feeling when they make a post in favor of the game they like.

Your guesses are incorrect.

The distinction I am drawing is between someone asking:

A. "Why play Game X?"
(i.e. Someone is asking for feedback about what other players find appealing about the game."

vs.

B."You no longer play Game X. What would make you come back to Game X?"
(i.e. Someone is asking how the current edition would need to change in order for the "lapsed" player to return.)

as opposed to:

C. "What would <#> Edition of Game X have to be like for your to come back?"
(i.e. Someone asking what mechanics or other factors would have to change to "return the customer to the fold")


A is merely seeking info about a game from fans of that game. C is brainstorming/fantasizing/polling for data regarding a future edition.

B is seeking to bring a player back when (presumably) all the things that caused the player to leave in the first place are still intact. If a publisher is asking that question, it makes sense -- they want the customer back. For the anonymous gamer who won't make a dime or add a player to their table seems odd to me, hence the "why do you care" part of the question.

That I happened to make this observation with regards to 4e was coincidental. If I'd noticed a lot of "Pathfinder recruiting" or "Traveller recruiting", the thread title would have read "PF/Paizo:..." or "Traveller/Mongoose..."

 

[Henry]

Market clout means Wizards has more influence on the direction, appeal, appearance, and overall "persona" of the pen-and-paper RPG market, and if all of the "new generation" of gamers are weaned on a game I don't like, it can affect my ability to find and participate in games that I feel will be the best RPG experience for me.

I very much disagree with this, because D&D is and has been the gateway drug for tabletop RPG players since the beginning; a lot have entered via Vampire and other games at various times, but D&D is the #1 way new roleplaying gamers are introduced; this is where the majority of Indy tabletop gamers got their start, and they moved on to different play styles as their experience as a gamer progressed; like most gamers, they'll probably cycle between D&D, other games, and back to D&D as time goes on. But getting them into the hobby -- getting them that first experience with rolling dice, assuming a character, managing resources, playing smartly -- is the most important part of the equation. Get 'em into the hobby, and a certain portion will gravitate to your system of choice.

Now, as a side note, is Pathfinder poised to graduate into that gateway drug? Could well be, given all I've been hearing from Gencon and how much Pathfinder stuff is appearing right alongside D&D in most bookstores and hobby stores. It's not there yet, but with luck and skill Pathfinder might evolve into a lingua franca for the hobby.

 

[Azgulor]

<snip -- speculation about me>

Hopefully, the examples in my last post show the distinctions I'm drawing. To address my view specifically rather than the questions in general:

If someone who hasn't played a game is seeking feedback (be it a pro- or con- thread), I'll weigh in if I've played the game. I like to talk about a game I enjoy and I feel like I'm returning the favor as the # of RPGs, settings, & publishers have tried over the past 10 years have stemmed from other players doing the same for me. I like to think it helps expand the hobby.

"Recruiting" as I've categorized it in this thread, doesn't have an obvious benefit that jumps out at me. Recruiting for a local game -- makes sense. Trying to bring customers back -- makes sense. Trying to bring other gamers (strangers, effectively speaking) just so they're playing "your RPG" -- doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Thus, the original post.

Now I could have speculated as to why. Here's a couple I can think of:
1. Some people have a lot of free time and will post any random thought to a message board.
2. Some people like talking about their favorite RPG regardless of the topic or context.
3. Some people feel (for whatever reason) that their game isn't as popular as it should/could be.
4. Some people like Edition Wars & will stir the pot when they can.

However, back in the original post, and in all of the ones prior to this, I intentionally avoided speculating as to why someone would "recruit". I was genuinely curious; not in a "let's find the truth" sort of way, just in a "I really don't get that" way.

 

[Beginning of the End]

Personally, there's a part of me that's a little saddened by the fact that the game currently being sold as "Dungeons & Dragons" no longer has the core gameplay of the game designed by Arneson and Gygax in '74. (Much about the game had changed and expanded and new options had been added, but the core experience of playing a fighter or wizard in 2007 was pretty much the same as playing a fighter or wizard in 1974. In 2008, that fundamentally changed.)

But I can't really get into some kind of "fiery pitchfork" mode about it because, like the OP said, it hasn't really changed the game I'm playing (and will continue to play). If the OGL didn't exist it might have had a more significant impact (since I do like supplementing my own creative work with the creative work of others in the form of supplements and modules), but since the OGL has allowed high quality 3.x material to continue being produced it really has been largely irrelevant to my personal gaming.

 

[the Jester]

Dragons...

They got nerfed.

Have you even fought a dragon in 4e?

They are FAR from easy meat.