D&D 4E 4E WotC way of saying your fired?

[SPECTRE666]

TSR fired me from the Realms back in 2e.

Cheers!

I guess I am nothing special, just next huh? I guess I need to start looking at Eberron, or hell the PATHFINDER SETTING.

 

[GVDammerung]

. . . People do not remember 1.0 because of the rules. They remember it because they were scared shitless in I6 : Ravenloft or because they slew Lolth in Queen of the Demonweb pits.

WOTC has kept publishing various rules supplements over the 3.X life, but the adventures were here only at the very end. Who has played them ? Did anybody ?

The source of fun for 3.X was DUNGEON. DUNGEON, yes. Made by ... PAIZO. . . .

I never thought about it this way but you are right! Wotc provided the rules but Paizo provided the memorable adventures, the most common, shared experience of playing 3x. Excellent point well made!

 

[MerricB]

I guess I am nothing special, just next huh?

Pretty much. The problem with *any* living setting is that there's always a chance that the next product is going to make the setting fail for you.

Here, I've started up a thread which details my experiences with settings, and my thoughts as to why they hooked me and then dumped me:
http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=208817

Cheers!

 

[GVDammerung]

. . . I'd trust Erik Mona ANY day of the week over WOTC when it comes to giving me a good D&D product, and I'd buy Paizo's 3.75 in a heartbeat. . . . The partnership with Bill and Clark just makes it all the better.

I'm thinking a lot of people mirror these sentiments. IMO, Paizo is in the catbirds seat. Whether they know it or not is another question. As is whether, if they know it, it scares the you-know-what out of them as to whether to go for it. IMO, Paizo is positioned to do what everyone says can't be done - compete with D&D on its home turf. An announcement from Paizo of a "3.75" ruleset with Necromancer support would, I think, have Wotc on the telephone in an instant looking to see how Wotc could "help" Paizo support 4e. IMO, Paizo going solo with the 3x OGL would scare the you-know-what out of Wotc and for very good reasons. Put is this way, if Paizo went the 3.75 route with Necromancer's support, 4e would be wounded to the quick. If Goodman Games then joined the Paizo Revolution, 4e would be DOA. I for one would love to see it.

 

[GVDammerung]

I don't feel fired by WOTC as much as I feel irrelevant to their decision making process.

QFT.

Wotc does not "intend" to fire their existing 3x customers, its just that they don't care whether those customers choose to "fire" themselves. Wotc will do what it thinks is best and too bad, so sad, if someone can't be reasonable and see it their way.

 

[DaveMage]

I'm thinking a lot of people mirror these sentiments. IMO, Paizo is in the catbirds seat. Whether they know it or not is another question. As is whether, if they know it, it scares the you-know-what out of them as to whether to go for it. IMO, Paizo is positioned to do what everyone says can't be done - compete with D&D on its home turf. An announcement from Paizo of a "3.75" ruleset with Necromancer support would, I think, have Wotc on the telephone in an instant looking to see how Wotc could "help" Paizo support 4e. IMO, Paizo going solo with the 3x OGL would scare the you-know-what out of Wotc and for very good reasons. Put is this way, if Paizo went the 3.75 route with Necromancer's support, 4e would be wounded to the quick. If Goodman Games then joined the Paizo Revolution, 4e would be DOA. I for one would love to see it.

I'd like to believe that the style of game I play (which is shared by the companies you mention) is as popular as you claim, but somehow I doubt it. There's WotC and then there's everyone else. And everyone else doesn't hold a candle to the WotC big boys.

(However, if you turn out to be right - I'll buy you a beer!)

 

[MerricB]

Wotc does not "intend" to fire their existing 3x customers, its just that they don't care whether those customers choose to "fire" themselves. Wotc will do what it thinks is best and too bad, so sad, if someone can't be reasonable and see it their way.

Funnily enough, I feel something similar about Paizo.

Cheers!

 

[GVDammerung]

There is no reason you should be relevant to their decision-making process more than the hundreds of thousands of other people that play the game... except for a false sense of entitlement.

Wrong. Customers' opinions matter and are taken into consideration by every canny business. It is no secret at this point that Wotc has significantly changed D&D with 4e from 3x. It is no secret that most of the fanbase has been caught by surprise by this and that opinion is split on wheher this is a good thing or a bad thing. At the very least Wotc has failed to manage perception. More than arguably, it is making decisions that on first blush PO a goodly portion of their core audience. Taken a a group, these nay-sayers are highly relevant to the 4e launch and may be equally relevant to how well 4e sells or doesn't. It's not a "false sense of entitlement." It is a justifiable expectation that the company will attempt to get buy in from its customers before everything is writ in stone. Wotc has proceeded and proceeds arrogantly, as it they don't really care whether or not a customer or a number of customers choose to "fire" themselves.

 

[The Little Raven]

Wrong. Customers' opinions matter and are taken into consideration by every canny business.

Individual customers are unimportant, so suggesting that every single person's opinion should be reflected in the game should be silly. Wizards, having access to market research that we don't, understands gaming trends in ways that we do not, and are probably in a better position to judge what their entire audience will enjoy than a bunch of people on a forum.

More than arguably, it is making decisions that on first blush PO a goodly portion of their core audience.

That's funny, because almost every 4E-related poll that I've seen indicates that more people are excited about the changes. It's just that on the forums, the same opinionated people tend to post over and over again supporting their opinion.

Taken a a group, these nay-sayers are highly relevant to the 4e launch and may be equally relevant to how well 4e sells or doesn't. It's not a "false sense of entitlement."

The belief that your singular opinion is more important than the opinions of any of the hundreds of thousands of players of the game is indicative of a false sense of entitlement.

It is a justifiable expectation that the company will attempt to get buy in from its customers before everything is writ in stone.

In case you didn't pay attention to business, companies use things like focus groups and market research to determine how their customers react to things, not trolling forums to see what DrizztGuy1978 thinks.

 

[GVDammerung]

I'd like to believe that the style of game I play (which is shared by the companies you mention) is as popular as you claim, but somehow I doubt it. There's WotC and then there's everyone else. And everyone else doesn't hold a candle to the WotC big boys.

(However, if you turn out to be right - I'll buy you a beer!)

And that's what Wotc is banking on - the perception of invincibility. If no one dares to try them, Wotc wins without ever lifting a finger. 4e is, however, not 3x, which was greated with almost universal cheers. And unlike every other transition between editions (3.0 to 3.5 was so close as to not really count), the OGL gives 3rd parties the opportunity to "call out" Wotc. Undoubtedly, it is easier and safer to go with the 4e flow for a company like Paizo. But that's nothing compared to going heads up with Wotc where even a tie is a huge win. Heck. Even loosing to Wotc but making it a squeeker would be a huge win for Paizo. The keys are how fast can Paizo get a 3.75 out the door, will Necromancer go along and can they convince Goodman Games to also join the Paizo Revolution. Its no sure thing but if the stars aligned, I think Paizo would reveal Wotc to be not quite so invincible as everyone thinks and could "win" even if they didn't KO Wotc. To "win" all Paizo and company need do is tie or make it close. Paizo increases its business by 30% - win. Everything else would be gravy.

Since I like beer, I think I'll mosey on over to the Paizo boards.