4th Edition and the Immortals Handbook

[Upper_Krust]

Hey guys!

It seems hasty to assume you know enough of the system to give both Minion and Elite levels for the same monsters.

These are my thoughts as well - to be honest, about most of this process.

We do know that Monster XP is the defacto CR (of 4E) and that a minion of level x is therefore equal to an elite monster of level y (as outlined about 15 posts ago).

I mean, this is a fun little bit of theorizing, I'm sure - but we're flying pretty blind at the moment as to what even a level 5 or 10 encounter looks like, let alone these high numbers -

I don't know where you have been hiding but I already have stats for about 80 4th Edition monsters printed out from the various previews.

So I have a fair idea what a Level 5, 10, 15, 20 etc. encounter will look like.

and we don't entirely know what a level 30 core rules PC can do, which makes planning for what their higher level versions can do all the higher.

I was able to reverse engineer the various damages listed so far (including the spell previews) and extrapolate from there, so I have a rough idea what I think damage outputs will be all the way up to 100th-level...that said, I haven't actually started work on any 4E stats yet. Only doing some brainstorming at this stage.

Although now the core text of Ascension is finished, I have less reason to whinge about the activity on this thread. ;-)

I am sure that won't stop some *glances into the recent Ascension thread*

 

[historian]

Hey U_K!

Am curious about the damage extrapolation generally; what's the formula?

BTW, any thoughts on converting 4e mini previews to full 4e?

 

[GQuail]

I don't know where you have been hiding but I already have stats for about 80 4th Edition monsters printed out from the various previews.

While there is some truth in this, what you have is a couple of monsters per level at most, mostly at the lower end, yes? In 3E terms, I wouldn't like guessing that a monster in another system should be CR 30 when all I have to go on is a Pit Fiend, an advanced Displacer Beast and an Iron Golem as your highest efforts. Oh, and you don't know what epic rules are, just the level 1 rules and a few mid level feats. Same for items.

I'm not saying it's impossible, just that I don't personally see it as much better than a guess, and I'm sure we could be doing something more valuable with our time. (Though, on a D&D forum, we could ALWAYS be doing something more valuable. ;-) )

I am sure that won't stop some *glances into the recent Ascension thread*

Well considering how long the book took compared to your original "It'll totally just be two or three more updates from this beta", I think some ribbing is not uncalled for. (And I feel that deserves a more than I did. ;-) )

 

[Pssthpok]

It's tantamount to arrogance to assume you can know anything more than a smidgen of the beast right now, Krust, and it speaks highly of your over-accelerated initiative to see you already assuming that you've managed to "break down" anything, let alone gotten anywhere near "statting out" anything in 4th edition.

 

[Khuxan]

It's tantamount to arrogance to assume you can know anything more than a smidgen of the beast right now, Krust, and it speaks highly of your over-accelerated initiative to see you already assuming that you've managed to "break down" anything, let alone gotten anywhere near "statting out" anything in 4th edition.

Other publishing companies, like Necromancer Games, are currently doing much the same thing Krust is - statting stuff up for practice, playing around with the numbers, planning. Some work will have to be redone but 4E is much closer to 3E than 3E was to 2E

 

[Phillip Larwood]

Other publishing companies, like Necromancer Games, are currently doing much the same thing Krust is - statting stuff up for practice, playing around with the numbers, planning. Some work will have to be redone but 4E is much closer to 3E than 3E was to 2E

We'll have to agree to disagree on 4e being closer to 3e than 3e is to 2e (and I'm not an anti-4e man by the way). We can agree on your wonderful choice of avatars though.

 

[Pssthpok]

Other publishing companies, like Necromancer Games, are currently doing much the same thing Krust is - statting stuff up for practice, playing around with the numbers, planning. Some work will have to be redone but 4E is much closer to 3E than 3E was to 2E

That doesn't really make a difference. Everyone is equally guessing, but Krust does so with an air of authority that he can't actually have unless he's a playtester and has been holding out on us.

For instance, from what I understand a Minion monster goes down in 1 hit, no matter what. And here, Krust is saying that at level 35 (5 levels out of 4E core), an Anakim 'becomes' a Minion monster. :\

It's just presumptuousness par excellence.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hey U_K!

Hi historian mate!

Am curious about the damage extrapolation generally; what's the formula?

I think I'll keep that to myself for now, at least from the boards (if you email me I'll tell you and then we can see if I crash and burn when 4E comes out). I've been giving away too many juicy tidbits.

BTW, any thoughts on converting 4e mini previews to full 4e?

Well I think the only major difference seems to be the hit points totals (simply use the formula I posted) and the damage totals. But for both we sort of need the ability scores.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Howdy GQuail dude!

While there is some truth in this, what you have is a couple of monsters per level at most, mostly at the lower end, yes?

Well its about 15% of the Monster Manual, thats quite a 'chunk o' change'.

In 3E terms, I wouldn't like guessing that a monster in another system should be CR 30 when all I have to go on is a Pit Fiend, an advanced Displacer Beast and an Iron Golem as your highest efforts. Oh, and you don't know what epic rules are, just the level 1 rules and a few mid level feats. Same for items.

You make it sound like I am statting out 4E monsters as we speak, but nothing could be further from the truth.

I'm not saying it's impossible, just that I don't personally see it as much better than a guess, and I'm sure we could be doing something more valuable with our time. (Though, on a D&D forum, we could ALWAYS be doing something more valuable. ;-) )

I'd like to think of it as an educated guess.

As for doing something more valuable, brainstorming is a very useful tool for a designer.

Well considering how long the book took compared to your original "It'll totally just be two or three more updates from this beta", I think some ribbing is not uncalled for. (And I feel that deserves a more than I did. ;-) )

Agreed, I got off pretty easy from you guys. But I'll make it up to you all.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Howdy Pssthpok matey!

It's tantamount to arrogance to assume you can know anything more than a smidgen of the beast right now, Krust,

Of course, which is why I have only put a smidgen of effort into 4E at this point.

and it speaks highly of your over-accelerated initiative to see you already assuming that you've managed to "break down" anything,

The way I didn't break down both 4E's EXP system and its Monster Hit Point mechanic you mean.

let alone gotten anywhere near "statting out" anything in 4th edition.

Exactly, which is why I haven't actually statted out anything yet. But we can pre-suppose a rough idea of where certain converted monsters or groups of monsters (like abominations) will show up with regards level, and from that we can second guess the sort of hit point totals we are likely to see. Just to give us an early 'heads up'.