Anabstercorian
First Post
'Skill' is hard to define. Everything else you know immediately what it means, but not 'skill'. I would replace it with 'Fertility' or 'Spring'.
4th Edition and the Immortals Handbook
- Thread starter Upper_Krust
- Start date
Upper_Krust
Legend
Hi Anabstercorian mate! 
Yes, it is somewhat ambiguous. I may change it to Archery or Travel. One is representative of dexterity the other of speed. Not sure which is more appropos.
Anabstercorian said:
Yes, it is somewhat ambiguous. I may change it to Archery or Travel. One is representative of dexterity the other of speed. Not sure which is more appropos.
Anabstercorian
First Post
Travel definitely has more mythological precedent. Ol' Hermes, or Baldur.
Center-of-All
First Post
Yeah, Archery is a little specific if you're limited to 20-24 portfolios. Though conceptually Skill is a better choice in terms of usability. Your list does seem to cover the major bases well enough, though, but I personally hope you don't go with your 5 level portfolio/role idea, I just see too many holes in it myself.
Upper_Krust
Legend
Hey there! 
Well...
Travel: Hasteseltsi, Hermes, Hodr
Archery: Chih-Chiang Fyu-Ya, Apollo, Rudra (maybe), Raiden, Yoshi-Iye (hero-deity), Uller
Anabstercorian said:
Well...
Travel: Hasteseltsi, Hermes, Hodr
Archery: Chih-Chiang Fyu-Ya, Apollo, Rudra (maybe), Raiden, Yoshi-Iye (hero-deity), Uller
Upper_Krust
Legend
Hey there Center-of-All!
Well now is the time to make your case. What sort of holes do you forsee?
Chances are that I will have a playtest period on any 4E rules I design, but at the moment (and I say that before seeing the 4E books themselves - so its not set in stone) I can't see a better way of doing it than the 5-level Portfolios.
Center-of-All said:
Well now is the time to make your case. What sort of holes do you forsee?
Chances are that I will have a playtest period on any 4E rules I design, but at the moment (and I say that before seeing the 4E books themselves - so its not set in stone) I can't see a better way of doing it than the 5-level Portfolios.
That would be pointless, changing your mind Krusty is like trying to dismantle The Great Wall of China or like trying to stop a charging rhino. Once you get an idea in your head you go all sorts of crazy with it. I've only seen a couple of very minor things you changed your mind on.
I tend to think you just enjoy the debate a bit much. =^.^=
I tend to think you just enjoy the debate a bit much. =^.^=
Center-of-All
First Post
1) Multiclassing in 4E works very differently than in 3E, which seems to be the basis for your proposed divine system. This is a very weak point, but it's something to think about. It's just doesn't gel with what's come before.
2) Niche Protection. Your idea completely destroys it, by allowing someone who wants to be equally competent at striking, defending, leading, and controlling as a specialist in that area. Furthermore, doing this is a no-brainer because...
3) The mix-n'-match aspect of the system means that any given portfolio/role "chunk" has to be equally powerful as any other. Therefore, the increase in versatility one would get from taking another "role" would have no counter for those who take a single role approach, since the versatility within a role is necessarily less expansive than that between roles. More importantly, though, you'd have a 20-level stretch where monsters couldn't get significantly more powerful, because the powers a level 35 immortal has are, by necessity, no stronger or more effective than those a level 50 immortal has.
There are probably ways to work around this, of course, but I honestly don't see it worth the effort. I don't have any ideas off hand, (well, maybe something, but it's not formed enough to put in words yet), but I honestly don't like this proposal.
2) Niche Protection. Your idea completely destroys it, by allowing someone who wants to be equally competent at striking, defending, leading, and controlling as a specialist in that area. Furthermore, doing this is a no-brainer because...
3) The mix-n'-match aspect of the system means that any given portfolio/role "chunk" has to be equally powerful as any other. Therefore, the increase in versatility one would get from taking another "role" would have no counter for those who take a single role approach, since the versatility within a role is necessarily less expansive than that between roles. More importantly, though, you'd have a 20-level stretch where monsters couldn't get significantly more powerful, because the powers a level 35 immortal has are, by necessity, no stronger or more effective than those a level 50 immortal has.
There are probably ways to work around this, of course, but I honestly don't see it worth the effort. I don't have any ideas off hand, (well, maybe something, but it's not formed enough to put in words yet), but I honestly don't like this proposal.
Upper_Krust
Legend
Hey dante mate!
It takes a keenly wrought objective argument to derail the matchless mind* of the Krust.
*I'm a fan of Lex Luthor.
Usually only very minor things I'm wrong on.
Probably, I wish I had the time to still crush people in online debates...ah the good old days *wanders off reminiscing to himself*
dante58701 said:
It takes a keenly wrought objective argument to derail the matchless mind* of the Krust.
*I'm a fan of Lex Luthor.
Usually only very minor things I'm wrong on.
dante58701 said:
Probably, I wish I had the time to still crush people in online debates...ah the good old days *wanders off reminiscing to himself*
Upper_Krust
Legend
Hey there matey!
I haven't really thought much about 4E multiclassing directly, though perhaps indirectly I suppose (see below). Though its possible you are talking more of the absence (or dimunition) of it.
Two things, firstly, there is simply no other way of doing it. Its as simple as that.
You can't have a full 20 level Portfolio for each role. Its simply far too much work, and a waste of time and space since so many of the powers will be retreads anyway. If you only match one portfolio to each role, then you limit who can take what portfolio in a way that undoes the mythology. A 'Loki' PC would be a Striker (as would a 'Hastsezini' PC), while an 'Agni' PC would be a defender (as would a 'Girru' PC). While a Brigit PC would fill more of a leader role. All have the fire portfolio. Yopu have to cater to them all, yet you cannot detail a full 20-level Portfolio run it just won't work.
Secondly, I think you have to remember that deities should be more versatile, and in addition the farther 'into' immortality you go, the less relevance your mortal life should have.
In 4th Edition, multi-classing will be far less prevailant than previous editions, which means that immortals will probably have a single class that best covers them. The possibility of more versatility (and remember I am not forcing the issue, simply allowing it - much like multi-classing in a way I suppose) I think suits deities.
Loki may still maintain his Striker role because he may have the Trickery, Fire and Chaos portfolios where he choose the Striker based powers for each.
Whereas Agni may have chosen two Fire Portfolios (Fire twice: Defender and Controller, in tandem with Thunder: Defender).
Yes and no. I can vary the damage/effect of certain powers depending upon the level its chosen.
For instance, the Rogue gets sneak attack of 2d6 at 1st-level, but at 11th-level it increases to 3d6, while at 21st level it increases to 5d6.
There are two ways of doing this for portfolios.
1. The power I take first scales upwards.
Lets say Agni takes the Fire defender powers first, then the Fire Controller powers second. The defender powers will scale to the second strata of power (just like Sneak Attack at 11th-level).
2. The powers scale depending on when you take them, so the powers you take between 46-50 would be more powerful than those chosen at 31-35.
Personally I favour Option #1
See above.
The more I think about it, the more this seems not only the way to go, but the only way to go.
Center-of-All said:
I haven't really thought much about 4E multiclassing directly, though perhaps indirectly I suppose (see below). Though its possible you are talking more of the absence (or dimunition) of it.
Two things, firstly, there is simply no other way of doing it. Its as simple as that.
You can't have a full 20 level Portfolio for each role. Its simply far too much work, and a waste of time and space since so many of the powers will be retreads anyway. If you only match one portfolio to each role, then you limit who can take what portfolio in a way that undoes the mythology. A 'Loki' PC would be a Striker (as would a 'Hastsezini' PC), while an 'Agni' PC would be a defender (as would a 'Girru' PC). While a Brigit PC would fill more of a leader role. All have the fire portfolio. Yopu have to cater to them all, yet you cannot detail a full 20-level Portfolio run it just won't work.
Secondly, I think you have to remember that deities should be more versatile, and in addition the farther 'into' immortality you go, the less relevance your mortal life should have.
In 4th Edition, multi-classing will be far less prevailant than previous editions, which means that immortals will probably have a single class that best covers them. The possibility of more versatility (and remember I am not forcing the issue, simply allowing it - much like multi-classing in a way I suppose) I think suits deities.
Loki may still maintain his Striker role because he may have the Trickery, Fire and Chaos portfolios where he choose the Striker based powers for each.
Whereas Agni may have chosen two Fire Portfolios (Fire twice: Defender and Controller, in tandem with Thunder: Defender).
Yes and no. I can vary the damage/effect of certain powers depending upon the level its chosen.
For instance, the Rogue gets sneak attack of 2d6 at 1st-level, but at 11th-level it increases to 3d6, while at 21st level it increases to 5d6.
There are two ways of doing this for portfolios.
1. The power I take first scales upwards.
Lets say Agni takes the Fire defender powers first, then the Fire Controller powers second. The defender powers will scale to the second strata of power (just like Sneak Attack at 11th-level).
2. The powers scale depending on when you take them, so the powers you take between 46-50 would be more powerful than those chosen at 31-35.
Personally I favour Option #1
See above.
The more I think about it, the more this seems not only the way to go, but the only way to go.
