4th Edition and the Immortals Handbook

[Upper_Krust]

Hi Rhuarc mate!

I really hope you won't give up. Even if it takes some more month until we get a finished pdf here, I'd rather have something at sometime in the future than nothing at all just because I want it within the next 6 weeks.
After all this time I just go with "it's finished when it's finished".
In the end you still do that on your own with your free time, even though it may would go faster if you get some help from the guys around here.

Anyway, I'm glad you are still on it and really look forward to the 4th edition stuff!

Best of luck mate

Thanks for the kind words. Lack of major progress is a tad demoralizing and I don't want to keep saying to people "well it will be finished next month (or whatever)" and then continually letting them down.

I think the next 6 weeks will determine whether or not there is any real future to my plans (of having multiple pdfs).

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hey UK!

Howdy bigg2006!

Hope you're enjoying your time off work. I've just started a two week holiday myself. It's a nice feeling.

The week preceeding my holiday I had a touch of the flu and I have an inkling thats making a comeback. So its not been completely brilliant as yet.

I did pick up the Beowulf dvd (amazingly cheap) and I plan on watching that tonight. Ridiculous I know that I have not yet seen that movie - planned to go with friends to see it in IMAX cinema but those plans fell through at the time.

I know I haven't exactly been the most prolific of posters on this forum (still in low single figures - a bit pathetic as I look in every couple of days to see who's saying what) but having read your last message I felt compelled to come out of hiding.

Its understandable that enthusiasm will dry up as the products and previews dry up. So I certainly don't blame even the formerly interested for taking time off while I sort things out.

Don't get discouraged if things go more slowly than you anticipate. I'm sure there are a lot of people out there, myself included, who would be very disappointed if you gave up on the project. Personally, I've really enjoyed the products you've put out so far. I think you've managed to fill a niche that no-one else seemed brave enough to tackle.

Hang in there mate!

Its more a case of accepting the reality of the situation more than 'giving up'. I mean I'd still probably plug away, I just wouldn't necessarily tell anyone to expect anything.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hey all!

In the process of putting together the first part of the 4E Gods & Monsters: Astral Plane pdf.

This first pdf is roughly one third of that full volume. So its a relatively small pdf.

The suffix of Astral Plane may be a tad misleading as the pdf will have monsters that may have only tenuous links to the astral plane and a few that won't have any links to it. But 'by and large' the general 'theme' of the book is the astral plane.

At the start are some notes on monster sizes (how ironic) followed by some very simple rules for using large units in 4E.

I have taken to outlining the three sections alphabetically. So this first section is very heavily dominated by angels. In fact the only entries are Abomination, Angel and Anomaly. However, that said, remember that 4E Angels are 'not your father's' angels.

Also as regards angels, I have really done a lot more to them this time around. So you don't just get some 'vanilla' angels. You get the standard angels (and the standard line-up has changed from the Epic Bestiary) each statted at two different levels; variant angels, unique angels, rebel angels, an entire Koph Nia statted (a different Koph Nia), an entire Chaylim/Angelic Army statted (using my new very simple 4E army rules), theres also a section detailing how angels relate to pantheons as well as a few brief notes on how individual deities (including evil deities) can acquire angels.

Also worth noting that at least two-thirds of this initial pdf is skewed towards levels 21-37 ish. So that even if its released prior to my 4E Immortals Handbook (and the pdf probably will, though not the book), it will still be of great use to current epic campaigns.

Of course there is still a good handful of ridiculously high level beings in the book as you'd expect.

 

[Ltheb Silverfrond]

U_K!

Good to know you are getting something done. It sounds pretty awesome.

Now, here's a question: I know for your 3E IH you did quite a bit of research and discussion. (Logs on enworld go back quite a bit) Do you think that the streamlined 4E system makes up for the lost work on 3E in terms of ease of design?

For example: My home campaign setting has been run since about 2004-ish(Unsure). In converting it to 4E, I took advantage of the edition change to retcon some restricting fluff, and implement new concepts. I may not be able to use the 2 megabytes of npc/monster stats (in txt file format, thats a ton of stats), but I find I can throw together those things 3x faster in 4E. In fact, I have probably generated ~over 1 megabyte of monsters/npcs for 4E already, and the only deterrents I have encounted thus far are time, burnout, and creating creative mechanics.

Do you find the same general trend, or is there design space you find a bit more difficult? (Like portraying divine portfolios as control over concepts with the aid of themed spell-like abilities was easy in 3E, but would clutter up 4E with the 'kitchen sink' trend)

Good luck, and I hope you can stay focused and productive enough to release Something soon.

 

[Upper_Krust]

U_K!

Hey Ltheb mate!

You know I actually replied at length to this post yesterday. Then my post was eaten by ENWorld and then ENWorld was too busy for 24 hours for me to get 'in'.

Good to know you are getting something done. It sounds pretty awesome.

Its starting to come together and I am pretty enthused about the whole project.

Now, here's a question: I know for your 3E IH you did quite a bit of research and discussion. (Logs on enworld go back quite a bit) Do you think that the streamlined 4E system makes up for the lost work on 3E in terms of ease of design?

I hope so. Although I am still always going to have the problem of the part time job (although not this month), now that I have got into the swing of things its pretty quick and easy. Of course then what usually happens is I am not satisfied with something, so I keep tweaking it or I just keep adding new monsters and ideas.

But 4E totally falls into my hands as regards monster design. It removes virtually all the annoyance of things like monster feats, skills and spell-like abilities. Basically all you need to worry about is Name, Level, Role and then what cool stuff can it do.

For example: My home campaign setting has been run since about 2004-ish(Unsure). In converting it to 4E, I took advantage of the edition change to retcon some restricting fluff, and implement new concepts. I may not be able to use the 2 megabytes of npc/monster stats (in txt file format, thats a ton of stats), but I find I can throw together those things 3x faster in 4E. In fact, I have probably generated ~over 1 megabyte of monsters/npcs for 4E already, and the only deterrents I have encounted thus far are time, burnout, and creating creative mechanics.

Time is obviously my own personal bugbear.

If I feel a bit of burnout on one project I will switch to another. Or maybe read a book, watch a movie or something like that to get me in the mood again.

Before I even started considering monster design for 4E I brainstormed about 3-4 pages of creative mechanics (as you eloquently put it). I'll try to make sure there is something interesting for each monster.

Do you find the same general trend, or is there design space you find a bit more difficult? (Like portraying divine portfolios as control over concepts with the aid of themed spell-like abilities was easy in 3E, but would clutter up 4E with the 'kitchen sink' trend)

Its pretty easy and straightforward to create new abilities for the portfolios.

The main problem with the 4E portfolios at the moment is how to best explain their progression, because its the opposite of current levels.

ie. Lets say you take the Fire portfolio (Striker Path) between levels 31-35 and the Trickery portfolio (Striker Path) between levels 36-40.

Once you get to level 36 (every +5 levels), your Fire portfolio powers get a boost, so they are more powerful than your Trickery portfolio powers.

So basically, all the portfolios are balanced for levels 31-35, but they all get more powerful as you ascend. That way I don't have to create 64 new abilities for each portfolio only 16.

Good luck, and I hope you can stay focused and productive enough to release Something soon.

Me too.

 

[Starsunder]

Hey U.K

First time posting here. I just wanted to know what you thought of
Vecna's stats? I was surprised by the four action points myself. Anyways, cant wait to see what you cook up for 4th Ed.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hey U.K

Hello there starsunder!

First time posting here.

You are more than welcome.

I just wanted to know what you thought of
Vecna's stats?

You know I have had my head deep in angelic contemplations that I haven't even gone looking for them yet - let alone seen them. I'll go have a hunt - maybe someone has posted some clues somewhere on these boards. I presume they are in Open Grave - I did see the preview of Kas the Betrayer.

Added to which I am having such a bloody nightmare getting hold of any 4E books in this country you wouldn't believe it.

I was surprised by the four action points myself.

Its sounding like their 30+ stuff is ripe for rule bending/breaking.

Anyways, cant wait to see what you cook up for 4th Ed.

You may have to wait....a while at least.

But the Gods & Monsters stuff should be really interesting. Even though its mostly angels, even though its only a part of the full Astral pdf which is itself only one of 6 proposed Monster books. People will still like it - trust me.

The Immortals Index: Canaanite Mythology should likewise give a lot of ideas.

A million other things I could wax lyrical about (most of which probably won't be ready until 5th Edition) but the main thing is that I am enjoying writing again thanks to 4th Edition.

 

[Starsunder]

Hello there starsunder!



You are more than welcome.



You know I have had my head deep in angelic contemplations that I haven't even gone looking for them yet - let alone seen them. I'll go have a hunt - maybe someone has posted some clues somewhere on these boards. I presume they are in Open Grave - I did see the preview of Kas the Betrayer.

Added to which I am having such a bloody nightmare getting hold of any 4E books in this country you wouldn't believe it.



Its sounding like their 30+ stuff is ripe for rule bending/breaking.



You may have to wait....a while at least.

But the Gods & Monsters stuff should be really interesting. Even though its mostly angels, even though its only a part of the full Astral pdf which is itself only one of 6 proposed Monster books. People will still like it - trust me.

The Immortals Index: Canaanite Mythology should likewise give a lot of ideas.

A million other things I could wax lyrical about (most of which probably won't be ready until 5th Edition) but the main thing is that I am enjoying writing again thanks to 4th Edition.

I really really enjoy this book; I highly recommend it. One of the things that I like are that there are a lot of high level encounters.

As far as Vecna's concerned, some highlights include: he starts with 4 action points, has an aura 10 that does 50 damage (!) to living creatures, and heals undead by 50, and has a standard melee attack that deals 3d6+14 damage and leaves them restrained and weakened(save ends both). He can also spend action points as immediate reactions when an enemy spends one, and can regain them when he reduces enemies to 0 hp. Quite the beast.

But honestly, I think im more suprised with Kyuss. Quite simply, his damage is off the charts. He has a standard melee attack that deals 4d8+7 necrotic damage (half damage with a miss), and a standard ranged 20 attack that deals 4d8+8 cold and necrotic damage and the target is slowed and weakened (save ends both). Both are strong. But the real kicker is that he has a standard at will attack called Sqirming Assault where he makes 5 (!) attacks using Corrupting Touch or Ray of Cold Death (the attacks I detailed). So that's up to 20d8+40 damage to a single target every round, not including his aura that also damages. And he's a solo controller, not brute (albiet level 31)!

I share your love of 4th Ed. I really dont have much to complain about it at this point in time-except being impatient for more books! Really looking forward to MM2 and DMG 2 (now that I know Sigil is in it).

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hello again starsunder!

I really really enjoy this book; I highly recommend it. One of the things that I like are that there are a lot of high level encounters.

I did a bit of snooping earlier, uncovered some details and it really does sound like the best 4E book to date.

As far as Vecna's concerned, some highlights include: he starts with 4 action points, has an aura 10 that does 50 damage (!) to living creatures, and heals undead by 50, and has a standard melee attack that deals 3d6+14 damage and leaves them restrained and weakened(save ends both). He can also spend action points as immediate reactions when an enemy spends one, and can regain them when he reduces enemies to 0 hp. Quite the beast.

From what I could gather
Vecna
Level 35 Solo Controller
Paralyzing Touch
Teleport 10
Banish to the Dread Realm: Remove 1 player until his next turn and when he returns he treats everyone as an enemy.
Ray of Death: drains healing surge
Necrotic Web: Burst 3, Range 20 creates a 'permanent' area of damage

One thing I am not totally clear upon - does he get 4 standard actions per round?

But honestly, I think im more suprised with Kyuss. Quite simply, his damage is off the charts. He has a standard melee attack that deals 4d8+7 necrotic damage (half damage with a miss), and a standard ranged 20 attack that deals 4d8+8 cold and necrotic damage and the target is slowed and weakened (save ends both). Both are strong. But the real kicker is that he has a standard at will attack called Sqirming Assault where he makes 5 (!) attacks using Corrupting Touch or Ray of Cold Death (the attacks I detailed). So that's up to 20d8+40 damage to a single target every round, not including his aura that also damages. And he's a solo controller, not brute (albiet level 31)!

I read that anyone he kills rises as a Wormspawn Praetorian (L28 Brute).
Also that he has a power to recharge any encounter power as well as an encounter power that lets him take over a PCs turn.

Sounds great!

I share your love of 4th Ed. I really dont have much to complain about it at this point in time-except being impatient for more books! Really looking forward to MM2 and DMG 2 (now that I know Sigil is in it).

Dude I am still looking forward to getting the darn Draconomicon - thats how far behind I am!

But I will very soon splurge on 4E and basically pick up eveything I want.

Tell me this did you get the D&D Insider info on the Primordial Mual-Tar?

 

[Starsunder]

Hey UK!

Vecna: I think he has his 1 standard action per round, he just starts with 4 action points instead of 2 like usual...is that what you wanted to know? Also, yes, he has the Necrotic Webs ability to make permanent (until end of encounter) 3' by 3' zones that are treated as difficult terrain and if ended in deals an ongoing 20 necrotic damage and the target is restrained.

Kyuss: He is stupidly powerfull (in a good way)! Did I mention that he takes half damage from melee and ranged attacks?

Mual-Tar: He is a L35 Solo Brute that has an aura that strips thunder and lightning resistance and deals 25 of said damage. Other than that he is pretty standard as far as high level solos go in that he deals high damage (mostly in the form of thunder and lightning). In looks, just imagine a gargantuan worm with wings of lightning.