D&D General 5.5 and making the game easier for players and harder for DMs

[DEFCON 1]

Bored Players or Long turns?

Easiest solve for that is just cut down the number of players at your table. That way you can have long turns that come back to the player faster and therefore reduce their boredom.

But I suspect too many DMs want to have more players at their table for whatever their reasons... and thus those DMs want turns to be so short so that they come back around to each player as fast as possible. But that really means those DMs shouldn't be playing games like 5E. Cause you can't play in the AD&D tradition of 10-12 players that way without the game being nothing but grind.

 

[DarkCrisis]

It's overworrying.

Even Sly Flourish says he could be wrong about all of it.

But it's just DMs worrying about the martial turns being as long as the casters.

But at a certain point, either every class gets to be interesting or they all must be boring.

It's only fair and DMs must choose.

Bored Players or Long turns?

Players get bored with long turns.

I still find it funny when people say older editons were more complicated. 5E is just as complicated in a different way.

I would think simplicity would be more desired over convoluted but I don’t make those choices when designing D&D.

 

[JohnSnow]

It's overworrying.

Even Sly Flourish says he could be wrong about all of it.

But it's just DMs worrying about the martial turns being as long as the casters.

But at a certain point, either every class gets to be interesting or they all must be boring.

It's only fair and DMs must choose.

Bored Players or Long turns?

Long turns lead to bored players.

Until they/we figure out how to better integrate player turns, it will always be boring for Jim while Bob takes 5 minutes to play out his turn.

 

[DEFCON 1]

But if monsters are too easy, there's plenty of ways to beef them up. That's another thread though.

Yep... and this entire time we've had all manner of 3PPs making monster books for just that purpose. And yet do any of the people here who constantly complain about WotC's monster books actually use those products to solve their own problems? If they do, that's great! But at that point why the heck do they still complain about WotC?

If (general) you have solved your own problem, what's the point of getting annoyed on behalf of other people? Especially when those people don't NEED your defense on their behalf? If I'm happy with how my game is going, why on earth would I purposefully make myself upset FOR other people? People whom I don't know, have never met, and who probably don't want me speaking on behalf of them anyways?

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Long turns lead to bored players.

Until they/we figure out how to better integrate player turns, it will always be boring for Jim while Bob takes 5 minutes to play out his turn.

If you have players that take 5 minutes for their turn, you should introduce turn clocks.

 

[payn]

OSR games are not written for the purpose of the DM/adventure/world trying to kill the PCs.

The point isn't to kill the PCs, but to challenge them.

Please understand the difference.

I’m trying to, but I’m constantly told there is no challenge without PC death.

 

[JohnSnow]

Easiest solve for that is just cut down the number of players at your table. That way you can have long turns that come back to the player faster and therefore reduce their boredom.

But I suspect too many DMs want to have more players at their table for whatever their reasons... and thus those DMs want turns to be so short so that they come back around to each player as fast as possible. But that really means those DMs shouldn't be playing games like 5E. Cause you can't play in the AD&D tradition of 10-12 players that way without the game being nothing but grind.

The paucity of DMs means most people’s extended friends who want to game with them is larger than 4 other nerds. And I certainly can’t blame people for not wanting to run 2 games a week.

I do find the lack of people willing to run games equates to game complexity. I can’t tell you how many people back in the 3/3.5e days said, “Oh, I’ll happily play this game, but I won’t DM (or “prep”) it.”

It’s how I firstfound Castles & Crusades. Our group’s DM hated the work that he had to put into 3e adventure design. So we switched systems.

 

[DEFCON 1]

Long turns lead to bored players.

Until they/we figure out how to better integrate player turns, it will always be boring for Jim while Bob takes 5 minutes to play out his turn.

But that's up to each individual DM to figure out for themselves. Because (general) you and WotC have no idea just how a long turn is before becoming a boring turn, or how much stuff a player needs/wants to do with their turn to make their turn feel meaningful and not a waste (because they have little to do).

WotC cannot solve these probably for every DM. Because they don't know who our players are, what they are like, or how many of them are sitting around the table. Only the DM does. So they wisely just find what they think is an appropriate default middle ground and rely on each DM to solve their own problem at the table.

 

[mamba]

And at the same time, they nerfed the summon spell specifically to make it easier for the DM.

they did that because it is not fun for anyone, not because it was hard on the DM.

If one player summons eight critters, everyone waits around for that turn to complete, that is not limited to the DM

 

[JohnSnow]

If you have players that take 5 minutes for their turn, you should introduce turn clocks.

Slight hyperbole on my part, I concede.

If it takes 10 minutes for the game to get back around to Bob, the same thing is true.