NaturalZero
Hero
Because of the slop-bucket design of the wizard in 3e and 5e, it doesn't make sense to spec Illusionist. Why choose it when you can get another subclass with a better feature and still have the exact same line-up of illusion spells?
D&D General 50 Years. The Least Popular Class Is......
- Thread starter Zardnaar
- Start date
Zardnaar
Legend
Yup. 2024 alot better in that regard.
Wolfpack48
Hero
I’ve always wanted to play an Illusionist. They seem like they could be very cool and powerful if played well (but not overly so with A GM that gives them a fair shake). I’d be up after a discussion ahead of the campaign.
Moorcrys
Adventurer
Love ‘em.
The Essentials illusionist in 4e was actually a blast to play. [emoji41]
There were a lot of illusion ignoring creatures in 1e - especially at higher levels. Then with UA the barbarian and cavalier classes could basically ignore illusionists because of class abilities. It was always good to have other spells prepared that weren’t illusions - like summon shadows and chaos.
From Gary’s writing it seems like he was generous with illusions with those creatures it worked on. They were deadly unless you were trying to do outrageous unbelievable things. Unlike post 1e, they seemed to take on more reality if believed.
Also in 1e the illusionist was a theme, not strictly a caster of only illusions- they conjured animals, summoned shadows, confused without saving throws, had a bunch fog spells (solid fog, death fog etc) and got 1st level magic user spells at high levels etc. They were tricksters and their bag of tricks went beyond figments.
They were my favorite class but no doubt they required communication with the DM as to what the expectations were and how far you could go with them.
The Essentials illusionist in 4e was actually a blast to play. [emoji41]
There were a lot of illusion ignoring creatures in 1e - especially at higher levels. Then with UA the barbarian and cavalier classes could basically ignore illusionists because of class abilities. It was always good to have other spells prepared that weren’t illusions - like summon shadows and chaos.
From Gary’s writing it seems like he was generous with illusions with those creatures it worked on. They were deadly unless you were trying to do outrageous unbelievable things. Unlike post 1e, they seemed to take on more reality if believed.
Also in 1e the illusionist was a theme, not strictly a caster of only illusions- they conjured animals, summoned shadows, confused without saving throws, had a bunch fog spells (solid fog, death fog etc) and got 1st level magic user spells at high levels etc. They were tricksters and their bag of tricks went beyond figments.
They were my favorite class but no doubt they required communication with the DM as to what the expectations were and how far you could go with them.
EzekielRaiden
Follower of the Way
Well sure, but that's like saying the only problem with a sports car is its engine. A great chassis is a good thing, to be sure, but there's not much point to buying a sports car with a crap-awful engine. And if you're replacing the engine with that of another sportscar....why not just buy that other sports car?
Vaalingrade
Legend
The CoW illusion spells went a long way even before this.
And I think that's because those Illusion spells weren't fiat; they had actual rules attached to them and ran on the conceit that the illusion was 'real' unless proven otherwise whereas traditionally illusions are treated as fake and intangible unless failed saves prove otherwise. It makes a big difference in the feel of the concept.
Zardnaar
Legend
Different playstyle. It's like playing a clone with modern mechanics vs THAC0.
The engine is fine it's what's built around it.
Most of the broken 3.5 stuff was theoretical higher level builds.
At a casual level 3.5 is fine (would even say better).
4E or 5E engine could clone any other Edition.
Vaalingrade
Legend
We're talking about Dungeons and Dragons 3.5, right? Because that wasn't my experience. The wheels started to fly off the moment casters hit level 5 and by level 7 we were approaching relativistic speeds toward the outfield.
3x just simply didn't really understand how to incorporate magic into its philosophy of rules as -near-enough in-universe physics.
Zardnaar
Legend
How many books were you using?
Vaalingrade
Legend
Started with Core since 3.5 decided to bring the greatest sins of Masters of the Wild and Tome and Blood right to the PH.
Like, you've met Natural Spell and the Wizard class's... just... just all of it, yes?
