Absolutely. I'm sure you'll find someone out there who will say that Lulu is the best thing Metallica's ever done.
I doubt WotC could do that bad.
Absolutely. I'm sure you'll find someone out there who will say that Lulu is the best thing Metallica's ever done.
I'm not really convinced that's a problem.LurkAway said:So if someone asks you, "What edition do you play?" and you answer "5E" and they answer "Duh, but which mod(s) of 5E?" then we have a problem, if -- like failed artificial languages -- the modularity opens the door to tinkering enough to splinter into factions.
This subforum is rife with polite but deep divisions, which is why the market is so fragmented today. And 5E's stated goal is to unite everyone from OD&D to AD&D to 3.X/PF to 4E. If disunity wasn't a problem, then 5E wouldn't have been announced so early with this goal in mind. So in that context, what do you mean that you're not convinced that fractures in playstyle are not a problem?I'm not really convinced that's a problem.
So in that context, what do you mean that you're not convinced that fractures in playstyle are not a problem?
It's like they were actively trying to drive off "guys like me" (of ANY edition). Who was it from WIZARDS that said right in these very forums that to him D&D was now 4e, or the occasional older game, but not 3e or 3.5? Anyone remember that?
Because that's the way WIZARDS wanted it. Not because that's how we wanted it. WOTC looked at 75% of their market base* and said "go away".From WotC/Hasbro's perspective, they're right. To WotC: OD&D, OSRIC, BD&D, 1E, 2E, 3E, and 3.5E players all have one thing in common: they don't contribute to WotC's continued survival as a company financially in a significant way.
It's not 1978 any more, though, Wiz. "Very little money" can make or break your company in RPGs.It was a poor PR move to stop selling PDFs, but I'd wager it made them very little money (if much at all, after factoring hosting costs, etc.).
Except not, because that's not what they're trying to do any more. Firing a customer base with every new release and hoping some come to ask for their "jobs" back is colossally stupid. I can go get parts for a '71 El Camino at the CHEVROLET dealership. Some, anyway. I can get more from authorized 3rd party vendors. What GM hasn't done is said "What, you don't wanna buy a new car?It must slay the previous edition, to some extent, to be successful.
I think there's going to finally be a real, honest attempt at a "big tent". Even if the tent itself is crowded with 4e and D&Dn, the yard its in won't be closed off to myself and other fans of older editions.I don't think anyone thinks 5E will appeal to everyone. 3E, arguably the most successful RPG release since AD&D, still had many detractors and folks who didn't cotton to it. But if they convince enough people to buy it, then by all means, do it.
I don't know what's going to happen. I already think that the Pathfinder people are long gone. I'm trying to measure how many 4e'rs think that they've been betrayed:
http://www.enworld.org/forum/new-ho...ast-lie-d-d-4th-edition-players-about-5e.html
it's a grim thing that dungeon master guy was talking about. If it's widespread the real core group of 5th editioners might be 1rst and 2nd edition players. I wasn't expecting to see what the dm guy was talking about and am starting to wonder if 5th is already sunk.
foolish_mortals
WOTC looked at 75% of their market base* and said "go away".
I have not read the rest of the thrad yet but I want ot coment on this. While i agree that D&D is hugely fragmented and not really convinced that 5e can achieve its aims a VTT is not a panacea.The D&D fanbase is hugely fragmented. 5e is only going to fragment the fanbase further. Also, since it will be a modular game, practically nobody is going to play the same version of 5e which then fragments the 5e fans from day one.
The only thing that can unite D&Ders is a truly awesome and heavily marketed VTT.
Actually, yes. I think D&D is a language. And for me it's very much a philosophy-like language game. But to stay on point, there are no required material elements for many game players. What is it exactly that makes us think "Those people are playing D&D". It isn't the gestures. It isn't minis or a grid. I'll give you most people use dice, but some don't even use those. It's the language. And retaining that language is important as you said. How this new game defines our game's words will change both play and the culture of our community. (Maybe they'll include a nice glossary again in the core books? Who knows?)D&D is not a language, and so...