D&D 5E 5e and the Cheesecake Factory: Explaining Good Enough

[Oofta]

There are lots of ways to measure quality other than it was successful at its creator's goals. That made it a quality film for them, but subjectively you could look at it with other metrics in mind and the quality will shift up or down depending on the film's success at these new metrics. For instance, if I were to take Age of Ultron and choose measure whether it was a quality Romantic Comedy, it would do very poorly.

Of course. But what people call a "quality" film is often defined by social expectations and what people believe a quality movie should be based on other people's preferences.

To me it's all subjective. A Ford F-150 may be a high quality vehicle to a lot of people while while I think it's an oversized tank that serves little purpose other than being hard to park in my garage.

 

[Ovinomancer]

Of course. But what people call a "quality" film is often defined by social expectations and what people believe a quality movie should be based on other people's preferences.

To me it's all subjective. A Ford F-150 may be a high quality vehicle to a lot of people while while I think it's an oversized tank that serves little purpose other than being hard to park in my garage.

A Ford F-150's quality is utterly unchanged by whether or not you like them or want them. You're confusing the utility of the product for you with quality.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that you probably think you wouldn't like Blades in the Dark. Do you think this opinion of yours about BitD changes it's quality, or does it just change it's utility to you?

 

[Oofta]

A Ford F-150's quality is utterly unchanged by whether or not you like them or want them. You're confusing the utility of the product for you with quality.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that you probably think you wouldn't like Blades in the Dark. Do you think this opinion of yours about BitD changes it's quality, or does it just change it's utility to you?

I've answered your questions. After a certain level of competence quality is in the eye of the beholder because different people will measure quality differently. Even more so for art and TTRPGs than vehicles.

 

[Ovinomancer]

I've answered your questions. After a certain level of competence quality is in the eye of the beholder because different people will measure quality differently. Even more so for art and TTRPGs than vehicles.

Utility is the word you're looking for, here, not quality. For example, I can buy extremely high end, high quality paper to print out some character sheets, but that has low utility to me due to the cost. My thinking it's not worth it doesn't change the quality of the paper.

 

[Maxperson]

A Ford F-150's quality is utterly unchanged by whether or not you like them or want them. You're confusing the utility of the product for you with quality.

It's a high quality vehicle, until a better quality vehicle comes along, then the new one is high quality and the F-150 isn't. Despite its quality not changing.

 

[Morrus]

For instance, if I were to take Age of Ultron and choose measure whether it was a quality Romantic Comedy, it would do very poorly.

Sure. A Ferrari is a poor quality washing machine and a terrible submarine. That statement is functionally meaningless.

 

[Oofta]

Utility is the word you're looking for, here, not quality. For example, I can buy extremely high end, high quality paper to print out some character sheets, but that has low utility to me due to the cost. My thinking it's not worth it doesn't change the quality of the paper.

A friend told me once that the way he handled telemarketers was to answer every query with "I'm Batman". I've told you what I think. So from now on ....

I'm Batman.

 

[EzekielRaiden]

I can talk about how well a game is put together, how well it does things, and other factors of quality, and you can still like it ir not for whatever other reasons you want.

How is it possible to have a concept of "doing X thing well" without, implicitly, saying X thing is valuable? How is it possible to indicate "put-together-ness" without a chosen metric of organization?

 

[Ovinomancer]

How is it possible to have a concept of "doing X thing well" without, implicitly, saying X thing is valuable? How is it possible to indicate "put-together-ness" without a chosen metric of organization?

Blades in the Dark has a mechanic to do flashbacks. If you don't care for this, it's of no value to you, or even takes away value. That preference doesn't say anything at all about how well BitD does flashbacks.

 

[pemerton]

The consumer is the final judge of quality

Does this mean that, until the invention of "consumption" sometime in the last few hundred to few thousand years - depending how you want to draw various historical boundaries - nothing humans did was of any quality?

Or to come at the issue a different way: many people greatly admire a range of works of art produce in Italy in the early modern era. When those works were being produced, were the "consumers" - ie the patrons of the artists - determining their quality, or were they being led by the judgements of the artists whom they sponsored?

Impressionist painting was scandalous when it was first undertaken, and is mostly now highly prized. How did the quality change when the paintings remained unchanged?