D&D 5E 5E Beast Companion Mechanics.

[CapnZapp]

It's working as intended.

"Working as intended" can be an incredibly dismissive response at times. In this case I believe it is - you display zero concern for the poster's issues, and your advice would be greatly improved if you would discuss limitations that does not let the pet short-circuit the poster's adventure challenges. Thank you.

 

[Nebulous]

In the original Beastmaster movie the Beastmaster Dar has two ferrets whose primary function is to steel things in the way you describe. So I would say "order your pet to steel something" is intended behaviour.

The issue is spiders are not usually considered as intelligent as ferrets (and the rules kind of reflect that, a ferret has an INT of 3, and a spider 2).

It's up to the DM to rule if the spider is not intelligent enough to follow those orders, or if it is a magically intelligent spider. Personally, in a pet solo mission, I would expect the player to role-play as the pet.

Yeah, that's fair, I do remember beastmaster and his little ferrets were smarter than your average critter. It's the wolf spider so it's a 3 Int, so it's dog intelligence. If I imagine being a magical smart pet that blurs the line between pet and familiar. She insists she has telepathic control over the pet. I can't see anything in the description like that though. "It follows orders to the best of its ability" is what it says, which can mean anything you want.

There is something else that annoys us though, as I've had another co-DM sit in a few times and he aggressively disagrees with how the ranger is using the spider pet. Maybe it is a situation where you need to see it in play, I dunno.

It's hard to put a finger on exactly, but maybe it's how the spiderpet is controlled as an extension of the PC in every way, like a remote control familiar. But it's her "thing" and a unique ranger ability that does set her apart from other classes, so I can't harp it too much, and I think if it was one of the allowed listed pets it wouldn't be as much of a problem, like a panther or badger or ferret.

Another instance, someone was temporarily blinded with goop in their eyes, and the player wanted to order the spider to clean the goop away. This happens a lot, ordering the spider to do...weird things...and I cannot decide how to handle it. I don't think a ferret, dog, mule, or wolf would know what someone meant to "clean Beorn's eyes off" unless we are talking about exceptionally intelligent magical creatures, but I thought these were forest animals, albeit resurrected magically. So, cleaning the eyes is what the "character" would do, but tries to use the spider to do it instead as a remote control extension of herself.

I tried to get the player to swap out one of the listed animals but she refused, saying she was attached to the spider I'd originally allowed. I did have to remove the bonus 2d6 poison damage and paralysis because it was way more than what other pets could do. The spider climb and 40' speed is still quite powerful and the spider stays out of melee range until it can drop on someone's head and bite.

It killed many an enemy this way, and critting with the poison bite was doing 6d6 damage (on a failed save).

All that aside though, I do like the ranger has a stronger "this is my shtick" now, and the pet has full actions, but where do I draw the line between animal and familiar? The player is a newbie and doesn't have any concept of game balance.

I know that my old seasoned players would never have the pet do things like this, they would think it's silly.

 

[Weiley31]

I would fix it by giving the Spider a Top-Hat and Monacle to wear.

Can't be epic awesome without looking quite dapper.

 

[dave2008]

Yeah, that's fair, I do remember beastmaster and his little ferrets were smarter than your average critter. It's the wolf spider so it's a 3 Int, so it's dog intelligence.

I dog can be trained to quite a lot, so I would definitely allow some latitude with what the spider can do.

She insists she has telepathic control over the pet. I can't see anything in the description like that though. "It follows orders to the best of its ability" is what it says, which can mean anything you want.

However, this is outside the bounds. By RAW, it it not telepathically controlled by the PC. You need to correct that ASAP. Or, accept it and the shenanigans that follow. If the player thinks this is a big part of their character, I might allow it with the stipulation that whenever the character wants to "telepathically" control the spider (AKA dominate), the character has to use its action to do so. Otherwise, it follows simple commands a dog could.

Another instance, someone was temporarily blinded with goop in their eyes, and the player wanted to order the spider to clean the goop away. This happens a lot, ordering the spider to do...weird things...and I cannot decide how to handle it. I don't think a ferret, dog, mule, or wolf would know what someone meant to "clean Beorn's eyes off" unless we are talking about exceptionally intelligent magical creatures, but I thought these were forest animals, albeit resurrected magically. So, cleaning the eyes is what the "character" would do, but tries to use the spider to do it instead as a remote control extension of herself.

Yep, that is not something you could simply command a dog to do.

 

[Nebulous]

I dog can be trained to quite a lot, so I would definitely allow some latitude with what the spider can do.
However, this is outside the bounds. By RAW, it it not telepathically controlled by the PC. You need to correct that ASAP. Or, accept it and the shenanigans that follow. If the player thinks this is a big part of their character, I might allow it with the stipulation that whenever the character wants to "telepathically" control the spider (AKA dominate), the character has to use its action to do so. Otherwise, it follows simple commands a dog could.


Yep, that is not something you could simply command a dog to do.

And this is the main problem, she keeps doing stuff like this continually, and when I try to curb it I get whining arguments of Why Not? And I try to say the spider isn't smart enough to follow those detailed commands, and more whining ensues. I could tell my-coDM was getting pissed off but he didn't say anything to me until later.

Your idea of using an action to "dominate" the pet to do something unnatural is actually a very good idea.

 

[dave2008]

And this is the main problem, she keeps doing stuff like this continually, and when I try to curb it I get whining arguments of Why Not? And I try to say the spider isn't smart enough to follow those detailed commands, and more whining ensues. I could tell my-coDM was getting pissed off but he didn't say anything to me until later.

Your idea of using an action to "dominate" the pet to do something unnatural is actually a very good idea.

I don't know the group dynamics, but it might be worthwhile to talk to her separately to explain the implications of what she wants to do. How it can upset the game balance and be unfair to other players and possibly make them feel "cheated." And then offer the "dominate" compromise.

EDIT: You noted she was new, so the idea of game balance and taking the to much of the spot light probably needs to be explained to her.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Yeah, that's fair, I do remember beastmaster and his little ferrets were smarter than your average critter. It's the wolf spider so it's a 3 Int, so it's dog intelligence. If I imagine being a magical smart pet that blurs the line between pet and familiar. She insists she has telepathic control over the pet. I can't see anything in the description like that though. "It follows orders to the best of its ability" is what it says, which can mean anything you want.

There is something else that annoys us though, as I've had another co-DM sit in a few times and he aggressively disagrees with how the ranger is using the spider pet. Maybe it is a situation where you need to see it in play, I dunno.

It's hard to put a finger on exactly, but maybe it's how the spiderpet is controlled as an extension of the PC in every way, like a remote control familiar. But it's her "thing" and a unique ranger ability that does set her apart from other classes, so I can't harp it too much, and I think if it was one of the allowed listed pets it wouldn't be as much of a problem, like a panther or badger or ferret.

Another instance, someone was temporarily blinded with goop in their eyes, and the player wanted to order the spider to clean the goop away. This happens a lot, ordering the spider to do...weird things...and I cannot decide how to handle it. I don't think a ferret, dog, mule, or wolf would know what someone meant to "clean Beorn's eyes off" unless we are talking about exceptionally intelligent magical creatures, but I thought these were forest animals, albeit resurrected magically. So, cleaning the eyes is what the "character" would do, but tries to use the spider to do it instead as a remote control extension of herself.

I tried to get the player to swap out one of the listed animals but she refused, saying she was attached to the spider I'd originally allowed. I did have to remove the bonus 2d6 poison damage and paralysis because it was way more than what other pets could do. The spider climb and 40' speed is still quite powerful and the spider stays out of melee range until it can drop on someone's head and bite.

It killed many an enemy this way, and critting with the poison bite was doing 6d6 damage (on a failed save).

All that aside though, I do like the ranger has a stronger "this is my shtick" now, and the pet has full actions, but where do I draw the line between animal and familiar? The player is a newbie and doesn't have any concept of game balance.

I know that my old seasoned players would never have the pet do things like this, they would think it's silly.

Well, the spider is still limited by its intelligence, and by the fact it isn’t a familiar. There is a spell that temporarily gives that sort of control, but otherwise you’re well within your rights to tamp this down a bit.

But again, try to keep in mind that the beast isn’t intended to just be a combat resource. It should be scouting, and retrieving things if it physically can, and stuff like that.

But how would it know how to safely clean goop out of someone’s eyes?

"Working as intended" can be an incredibly dismissive response at times. In this case I believe it is - you display zero concern for the poster's issues, and your advice would be greatly improved if you would discuss limitations that does not let the pet short-circuit the poster's adventure challenges. Thank you.

It is working as intended. The only thing wrong here is that the spider isn’t a standard pet, and the player isn’t being told how the pet works in terms of fine control and a spider knowing how to do things.

Keep your tone policing to yourself, next time. Thank you.

 

[Nebulous]

I don't know the group dynamics, but it might be worthwhile to talk to her separately explain the implications of what she wants to do. How it can upset the game balance and be unfair to other players and possibly make them feel "cheated." And then offer the "dominate" compromise.

Yes, I might need to talk to her. The other players don't get the balance either, they're all new, but balance in D&D is one of the core things DMs have to look out for, and I get rankled when something is off.

 

[dave2008]

Yes, I might need to talk to her. The other players don't get the balance either, they're all new, but balance in D&D is one of the core things DMs have to look out for, and I get rankled when something is off.

I have had similar issues with new players before. My veteran players are self correcting, but newbies, not so much.

 

[Nebulous]

Well, the spider is still limited by its intelligence, and by the fact it isn’t a familiar. There is a spell that temporarily gives that sort of control, but otherwise you’re well within your rights to tamp this down a bit.

But again, try to keep in mind that the beast isn’t intended to just be a combat resource. It should be scouting, and retrieving things if it physically can, and stuff like that.

But how would it know how to safely clean goop out of someone’s eyes?


It is working as intended. The only thing wrong here is that the spider isn’t a standard pet, and the player isn’t being told how the pet works in terms of fine control and a spider knowing how to do things.

No, it would NOT know how to clean goop from eyes with a 3 Intelligence. And I have told the player many times about fine manipulation and a spider doing things and I get arguments of Why Not? The player has it firmly in her head that the spider is a highly intelligent extension of herself and frankly doesn't know how to roleplay an Int 3 pet.