5E: Converting Monsters from White Dwarf Magazine for Fifth Edition

Cleon

Legend
good question. My feeling is that its abilities from 4e suggest to me CR 2 probably a better fit...?

Challenge 2 or higher is fine by me, just wanted to get an idea of what you're aiming for before we get too far into the conversion.

Here's a few more questions:

Firstly, the AD&D-ish White Dwarf and 4E Forgotten Realms Campaign Guide weres we're basing it on are both venomous, and in the original version that's a lethal save-or-die venom, so I'm thinking this version will do a fair bit of poison damage with its Bite which should justify a higher CR than a Wererat.

Secondly, is its Lycanthropy infectious? The 4E version is hereditary-only so a wereserpent bite doesn't transmit the curse of lycanthropy, it simply envenoms the target. The original entry says a victim must save vs. poison or die, it says nothing about them risking becoming a weresnake themselves. That leads me to think our conversion's Bite would not have the standard lycanthrope's "succeed on a DC ## Constitution saving throw or or be cursed with werebeastie lycanthropy" but require a save to resist being poisoned (poison effects to be determined).

Thirdly, what snake form does it assume? Your current rough draft has it turning into a "giant snake" which isn't precise enough. There are two giant snakes in the SRD, one Medium (the Giant Poisonous Snake) and one Huge (the Giant Constrictor Snake).

The White Dwarf Weresnake can summon giant poisonous snakes, which implies that it turns into one. That also conserves the creature's size category to Medium in its alternative forms. That'd make its wereform like so:

Shapechanger (Venomous). The weresnake can use its action to polymorph into a snake-humanoid hybrid or into a giant poisonous snake, or back into its true form, which is humanoid. Its statistics, other than its speed and AC, [?] are the same in each form. Any equipment it is wearing or carrying isn't transformed. It reverts to its true form if it dies.​

If it isn't venomous but is strangles victims in its coils like the 3E Serpent Kingdom Wereserpent, it would be:

Shapechanger (Constrictor). The weresnake can use its action to polymorph into a snake-humanoid hybrid or into a constrictor snake, or back into its true form, which is humanoid. Its statistics, other than its speed and AC, [?] are the same in each form. Any equipment it is wearing or carrying isn't transformed. It reverts to its true form if it dies.​

If you want to leave out the specifics of what type of snake it turns into as per the current rough draft, it should use "Medium snake" instead of "giant snake" like the shapechanging ability of a 5E yuan-ti or ti-khana. It'd use that if it turns into some kind of venomous constricting supersnake like a 4E Wereserpent. The stat block in the Forgotten Realms Campaign Guide says 4E Wereserpents "appear as a crush-grip constrictor" but I'm inclined to ignore that.

That should give it.

Shapechanger (Supersnake). The weresnake can use its action to polymorph into a snake-humanoid hybrid or into a Medium snake, or back into its true form, which is humanoid. Its statistics, other than its speed and AC, [?] are the same in each form. Any equipment it is wearing or carrying isn't transformed. It reverts to its true form if it dies.​

Obviously what snake form it takes will be reflected in its abilities and powers. A giant poisonous snake is a lot more dexterous but less muscular than a constrictor snake, for example.

If it's a generic Medium snake that combines a giant poisonous snake and a constrictor snake then its physical ability scores might be the best of both or an average of the two.
 

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Casimir Liber

Adventurer
(a) all venoms have been nerfed to some degree from 1e to 5e though but happy to have it a bit spicier than the wereserpent

(b) I'd say its lycanthropy should be infectious as that is one of the key attributes of lycanthropes in dnd

(c) am thinking a combination - e.g. Australia's most dangerous snake, the Eastern brown snake - Wikipedia has been reported constricting prey, so I like the idea of (I guess) a giant poisonous statblock with added constricting ability - so the supersnake I reckon.
 

Cleon

Legend
(a) all venoms have been nerfed to some degree from 1e to 5e though but happy to have it a bit spicier than the wereserpent

Well the last rough draft you posted didn't do any poison damage with its bite at all, hence the question.

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(b) I'd say its lycanthropy should be infectious as that is one of the key attributes of lycanthropes in dnd

Well it's not essential for were-creatures in D&D. The 4E Lycanthropes like the Wereserpent we're using as a model don't inflict the curse of lycanthropy and the original White Dwarf text doesn't say that humans bitten by a Weresnake risk becoming lycanthropes, but that they die if they fail their saving throw.

There are a few AD&D weres that either don't inflict lycanthropy (including at least two Werejaguars for some reason) or can only infect particular people. Like Werefoxes, who can only infect elven or human women.

In BECMI, most strains of lycanthropy, most strains will only transform humans but if another race contracts the disease (e.g. a halfling) they will simply die instead of becoming a beast.

My main concern was I fancied keeping the Bite mechanics relatively simple. Just for a change of pace from my typical habit of over-complicating things. That might happen if it has multiple Constitution saving throws against ongoing poison plus another one against the curse of lycanthropy.

(c) am thinking a combination - e.g. Australia's most dangerous snake, the Eastern brown snake - Wikipedia has been reported constricting prey, so I like the idea of (I guess) a giant poisonous statblock with added constricting ability - so the supersnake I reckon.

Quite a few venomous snakes coil around prey while biting them, but I don't think that's usually "constriction" like a python does. The snake is basically just grappling its victim so it can't escape while its venom does the work, while constriction proper is a means of killing prey by squeezing the life out of it. Incidentally, a constrictor snake doesn't usually crush its target in its coils (although a big python is easily strong enough to snap bones) but prefers to asphyxiate its prey by squeezing them whenever they try to take a breath, so they eventually run out of oxygen.

That's a bit academic since we're talking about a fantasy snake here, so it can constrict like a boa and have a viper's poison fangs!

Let's see, what stats are we talking:

Constrictor Snake STR 15 (+2), DEX 14 (+2), CON 12 (+1)
Giant Poisonous Snake STR 10 (+0), DEX 18 (+4), CON 13 (+1)​

If we average those two, it'd be something like:

Weresnake STR 13 (+1), DEX 16 (+3), CON 12 (+1)​

That works for me, and it'd give the Weresnake AC 13 which is equivalent to the 1980 original's Armor Class of 7.

Note that in 5E neither the Constrictor or Giant Poisonous Snakes have any natural armour, nor does the Wererat or Giant Rat have (natural armor).
 

Casimir Liber

Adventurer
Ok - agree on ability stats and AC 13 at bottom

Agree on keeping bite mechanic as simple as possible - simplest is CON save or be poisoned - maybe a poisoned subject then has to make a second CON save to avoid lycanthropy.
 

Cleon

Legend
Ok - agree on ability stats and AC 13 at bottom

Hmm, I'm wondering if we should tweak the stats up to STR 15 so its Constrict attack will be as effective as a regular Constrictor Snake (+4 to hit, +2 damage) instead of the +3 to hit, +1 damage it'd get with STR 13.

If we're going the "best of both worlds" we could also make it CON 13 like a Giant Poisonous Snake, not that that would make much difference in its combat performance.

We should nail down the mental stats too.

The D&D Beyond Rough has INT 11, WIS 10, CHA 8.

The White Dwarf version has "Intelligence: Average" while the Wereserpent has Int 10, Wis 11, Cha 8 in 3E and Int 10, Wis 12, Cha 18 in 4E.

For what it's worth, in 5E a Giant Poisonous Snake has INT 2, WIS 10, CHA 3 and a Constrictor Snake INT 1, WIS 10, CHA 3.

Hmm… I'm fine with the INT and WIS proposed but aren't so keen on it having a negative CHA modifier. Aren't weresnakes supposed to be deceptive as well as cunning?

Hmm, maybe give it CHA 11 with either the current physical stats of STR 13, DEX 16, CON 12 or the upmuscled STR 15, DEX 16, CON 12?

Weresnake Abilities #2 STR [13 or 15], DEX 16, CON 12, INT 11, WIS 10, CHA 11​

Alternatively, we could base the mental stats on a downgraded version of the Yuan-ti Pureblood's INT 13, WIS 12, CHA 14. Just knock off a couple of points from each for:

Weresnake Abilities #3 STR [13 or 15], DEX 16, CON 13, INT 11, WIS 10, CHA [10 or 12]​

Do you like either of those?
 

Cleon

Legend
The White Dwarf weresnake is Neutral Evil while the current D&D Beyond version has typically chaotic evil for its alignment. I'm guessing this may be because the Wereserpent is "Usually chaotic evil" in 3E.

Wereserpents have an alignment of "Any" in 4E.

Since this is a conversion of the White Dwarf incarnation, I'm inclined to stick to the original NE alignment:

Medium humanoid (human, shapechanger), neutral evil

Also, the D&D Beyond Rough has climb 20 ft. (which, like its swim speed, should only be usable in snake/hybrid form).

However, snakes don't have a Climb Speed in 5E, that's a 3E/4E thing that's presumably been cribbed from the Wereserpent.

Shouldn't we cut that out and just give it a Swim speed? Also, Snakes swim at 30 feet in Fifth Edition, not 20 feet like their 3E/4E versions.

That'd be:

Speed 30 ft. (30 ft., swim 30 ft. in snake or hybrid form)​
 


Cleon

Legend
A weresnake wouldn't have Darkvision if we follow standard 5E Lycanthrope precedents.

However, snakes DO have blindsight in 5E so presumably a Weresnake will too.

Question is, can it use it in hybrid form or just its animal form?

Senses #1 blindsight 10 ft. (snake form only), passive Perception ##
Senses #2 blindsight 10 ft. (snake or hybrid form only), passive Perception ##​
 

Cleon

Legend
Agree on keeping bite mechanic as simple as possible - simplest is CON save or be poisoned - maybe a poisoned subject then has to make a second CON save to avoid lycanthropy.

Had a number of ideas for the poison/lycanthropy of the Bite (some of which break my self-imposed "keep it simple" mantra), but I think we'd better get the basic stat block out of the way first.
 

Casimir Liber

Adventurer
ok deleted climb speed. made neutral evil

Senses #2 blindsight 10 ft. (snake or hybrid form only), passive Perception ##

Weresnake Abilities #3 STR 13, DEX 16, CON 13, INT 11, WIS 10, CHA 12 (agree on snakey charisma)
 
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