D&D 5E 5E is attempting to recalibrate our expectations

[Vegepygmy]

Well, the bit about the game transforming from gritty low-level heroes who become wuxia masters and then superheroes isn't how the game played before 3.X (and 4E) - or so I've been told (I haven't heard about many high-level and epic-level 1E and 2E characters).

I can speak only for myself, of course, but I saw and played plenty of wuxia masters and superheroes in my 1e days.

Now, I love me some gritty, low-level fantasy role-playing, but I'd hate to see D&D become only (or even mostly) that. The great thing about 3E's "tiers" is that if you do want your game to have only gritty, low-level heroes (or only superheroes), it's fairly easy to accomplish that with something like E6. I hope the next edition will be as flexible.

 

[Frostmarrow]

I think heroic-paragon-epic has little to do with level, It's more of a point buy budget thing. Heroic (in 3e terms) is 25 points, paragon is 30 and epic is 35.

Achilles, while being invulnerable, is not an epic D&D character. He just has terrific scores.

I'd like ten levels of play, but each level should have mechanical options to explore. Retraining shouldn't be something you can do while levelling but something you can do at any time to suit the story. If the characters join a Roman legion they should be able to pick up roman weapons and quickly retrain so they can be effective with them.

 

[corwyn77]

You are probably right in that neither Tiers nor Levels can satisfy the desires of these two types of gamers (or rather two sides of the same gamer at different times). Some of us want a gritty campaign to remain gritty, pulpy and noir, and some of us want an epic tale which starts with Hercules the son of Zeus who strangles snakes in his cradle, or with Feanor the Noldor, or with Galahad the perfect knight from birth.

I agree with this completely. One of my biggest complaints about dnd (in all of its editions) is that, beginning to end, it is not the same genre. I don't really care so much what dnd 5 is, gritty or epic; I'd just like the ability to make it the same genre. Fresh off the turnip truck to demi-god is not a common theme in fantasy (Belgariad and Star Wars notwithstanding).

If I get to play Aragorn, I don't want to wait 10 levels to get there. And if I'm playing Bilbo, I don't want to be slaying Dragons in 10 levels. that's what Bard is for.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Speaking for myself, I find something enjoyable at each level of play. My buddies and I have a 27 year old campaign world in which we have PCs ranging from 1st to 31st.

If 5th doesn't support a broad range of levels to play, I think it will turn off a lot of people. The only question is how many.

 

[Ratskinner]

Modules? Anyone?

I agree with this completely. One of my biggest complaints about dnd (in all of its editions) is that, beginning to end, it is not the same genre. I don't really care so much what dnd 5 is, gritty or epic; I'd just like the ability to make it the same genre. Fresh off the turnip truck to demi-god is not a common theme in fantasy (Belgariad and Star Wars notwithstanding).

If I get to play Aragorn, I don't want to wait 10 levels to get there. And if I'm playing Bilbo, I don't want to be slaying Dragons in 10 levels. that's what Bard is for.

It seems to me that this kind of "dial" is exactly what they intend the modules to be. I'm not even sure you'd need a big module for this, just a short chapter on how to adjust for grittiness (change some hp/HD, changes to healing, treasure tables(?), etc.) I'd personally recommend splitting it into several mini-modules depending on the flavor of "grittiness" you want. If you want to go from zero to superhero, just engage more of the anti-gritty modules as you go (or disengage the gritty modules).

As for Aragorn vs Bilbo, well I actually think that's what they are talking about when they speak of flattening the curve. A flatter curve makes it easier to have a Lvl10 Aragorn and Lvl2 Bilbo show up at the same game and both contribute. Having a dials that can turn up to Monte Haul, cinematicity, super-heroics or wuxiosity; or back down to grit, grimness, lethality or scarcity is what those dials are for.

As far as the default game....I dunno, maybe split the difference between 2 and 3e. Of course that's totally by feel, since you can't really average the two sets of mechanics.