D&D 2E (5e + PF2e)/2?

[Krachek]

I have a whole thread on it! 5e Hardcore Monster Manual

I've taken a hiatus from the project to work on other things and I have decided to ditch the idea of elites so I want to go back and change all of the "elite" stat blocks and just raise there CR.

Nice work.
5ed can be upgrade easily.
For a Dm it’s much easier to apply existing feature like feat or manœuvre or spell like effect.

 

[gyor]

5E or 4E core would work. Rewrite the classes and monsters to taste. Replace 5E ASI system or grant a micro asi every two levels.

PF2 has an interesting character generation at least until you hit the class section maybe ancestry.

Ancestory was this really cool idea that in practice is surprisingly boring so far in practice.

PF 2e has a lot of cool, interesting ideas that end up falling flat for various reasons.

Example Sorcerer's with different power sources and spell lists. Sounds really cool and makes sense. Basically expanding upon 5e's Divine Soul Sorcerer.

Problem is the spell lists are designed around other classes and balanced that way. not around the Sorcerer.

So the Divine is Balanced around clerics that get a bunch of stuff, like armour profiency that the Sorcerer doesn't get. It doesn't help that really cool spells like Guiding Bolt and Spirit Guardians among others aren't in PF2.

 

[gyor]

If you want to make tactics in combat more interesting, encourage players to use skill checks in combat to improvise cool moves, as a move action or bonus action allowing them to attack as well.

 

[dave2008]

If you want to make tactics in combat more interesting, encourage players to use skill checks in combat to improvise cool moves, as a move action or bonus action allowing them to attack as well.

I agree with the concept, but I am not talking about ad hoc things a DM can do. I am interesting it what bits of crunch could be added to provide it for all.

 

[Zardnaar]

Ancestory was this really cool idea that in practice is surprisingly boring so far in practice.

PF 2e has a lot of cool, interesting ideas that end up falling flat for various reasons.

Example Sorcerer's with different power sources and spell lists. Sounds really cool and makes sense. Basically expanding upon 5e's Divine Soul Sorcerer.

Problem is the spell lists are designed around other classes and balanced that way. not around the Sorcerer.

So the Divine is Balanced around clerics that get a bunch of stuff, like armour profiency that the Sorcerer doesn't get. It doesn't help that really cool spells like Guiding Bolt and Spirit Guardians among others aren't in PF2.

Yeah I bought the PDF, couldn't do it to myself and bought Curse of Strahd instead and in not a big fan of Ravenloft or vampires.
I like Paizo as well I just can't do it to myself, I have a big pile of PF PDFs I can convert. I don't want to read it let alone play it.
It might be worse than 4E. At least 4E somewhat achieved what it was trying to do.

 

[Matrix Sorcica]

Yes it was. But then I guess I decided what was the point of the confusion. What does it matter if CRs go up, it is just a number. One of the reasons I did it was so that you could have monsters with lower hit accuracy and high hit points. However I have developed another work around I think I like better. Use HD to calculate proficiency for monsters. So this is the current plan (loved to hear your thoughts):

1. Use HD to determine prof. bonus.
2. Calculate CR normally except as noted in 1.
3. Elite is a tag that tells you to uses 3/4 hit points per HD (so 9 on a d12 instead of 6.5)
4. Paragon is a tag that tells you to use full hit points per HD (12 on a d12)

PS I am already doing this in my home game and it is working well.

So elites and paragons are the same CR?

Also, what about the action economy? Will Paragons be able to withstand a party's onslaught, or do you need to design legendary creatures for that? (and I thought you didn't like legendary actions). Your old elites dealt 1.5 times the damage of standard creatures for this reason as well. I think I'm failing to see how slapping some extra hp on a monster will solve some of the fundamental monster design issues in 5E.

 

[Horwath]

What I'm shooting for is more like flattening the math of PF2 to be closer to 5E, and designing a combat system that is tactical at the core, so you can have interesting back-and-forth action even at 1st level.

And honestly it's more of a whole new game, rather than a hack to implement new rules into an existing one.

That is easy, just remove +1/level number treadmill

 

[TheSword]

I hear a lot of complaints on the PF forums that 5e does have enough options and is not tactical enough. However, for me PF2e is not just adding some depth and options, but a lot more fiddle bits and complexity. To much for my taste. So I have a few questions for forum foragers:

1. Is there a RPG that has the simplicity of 5e with some more depth and tactical options like PF2e (or 4e really)?
2. Can you add depth and tactics to 5e without losing much of its simplicity / streamlined play?
3. Assumed “yes” to #2: how would you do it?

To start here are my thoughts on an answer to #3 (which means I think #2 is a yes):

• I would give tactical options to monsters (I’m already doing that)
• add tactically oriented subclasses
• Maybe rework feats to be half or mini feats and spread them across more levels

Just up the number of feats. We give an additional racial feat at level 1, and extra feats only (not stat increases) at 2, 6, 10, 14 and 18.

Plus an additional skill at 7, 11 and 15

This adds some granularity. Also increases power but who cares if everyone has the same rules.

 

[Campbell]

That is easy, just remove +1/level number treadmill

They will have guidance on this in the GMG. Basically the knock on effects are that lower level creatures are significantly more threatening while higher level opponents are significantly less threatening. Like you will probably not want to use many boss encounter type fights against higher level enemies.

 

[Horwath]

One second actions.
Besides, how can this not make combats take hours?

one second actions, but you get them in batch of 6(1 round, 10 rounds per minute)

Then you can have:

Move: 2 actions. move your speed
Attack: 2 actions,
Two weapon fighting attack: 3 actions,
Rapid shot(2 shots): 3 actions,
Default spell: 4 actions, attack boosting spells(smites, hex, mark) 1 action,
Cantrip: 3 actions,
stand up: 1 action,
mount up: 1 action,
interact: 1 action,
Dodge: 4 actions,
Hide: 1 action,
Stealth move: 3 actions, move your speed
Disengage: 3 actions, move without AoO
Concentration: 1 spell - 1 action, 2 spells - 3 actions, 3 spells - 6 actions, 4 spells - 10 actions

Haste spell: gain 1 Extra action per round
Haste improved spell: gain 2 Extra actions per round. does not stack with haste
Time stop spell: 1 action cast: gain 10 actions for this round.