D&D 5E (2014) 5e Players: How often have you been allowed to use 3PP?

[Paul Farquhar]

What, exactly, was I supposed to do better/different?

Be less abrasive?

 

[TwoSix]

It's been a mixed success so far. One player took a 3pp class (kibblestasty's Warlord), but one of the others has spent weeks trawling the wilder and less-credible corners of the D&D internet trying to find the absolutely perfect homebrew subclass, and then trying to talk me into modifying it just a little bit more.

Generally, when that happens, I sit down with the player and ask them exactly what they want the character to be. If they have a clear picture, then we can hammer together some options. If they don't have a coherent image of what they want, then quite frankly they're looking for options for the wrong reason.

The number one courtesy you can extend when you bring 3pp into a game is not make a character that's stronger than a tempest cleric or a hand xbow sharpshooter fighter or a chronurgy wizard or a sorlock.

 

[Voadam]

And I suspect there is a very strong correlation between how much 3PP is allowed and how well the players know each other in the group.

That's nonsense. It's only been possible to play with strangers over the internet for a couple of years. It's hardly reasonable to expect a game that is about to cerebrate it's 50th anniversary to have been designed with that in mind. D&D, like the vast majority of boardgames, was designed to be played with friends. It's hardly the game designer's problem if you don't have any.

I played a bunch of pbp games here in the 3e era with people I don't know outside of ENworld. Games ran the gamut of core only, WotC only, and 3pp allowed. I got to play in games where I used stuff from Mythic Races, Complete Book of Eldritch Might, Arcana Unearthed, Unholy Warriors Handbook, an Acrobat class from a Fantasy Flight Games book, and some other OGL player stuff. I don't think it was based on trust in me.

I think it depends more on the individual DM and their preferences than the group setup.

 

[marimbaguy715]

Not sure how to answer this based on the games I run. I generally like my players to stick to official content where possible, for a number of reasons. However, I DM in Eberron a lot, and I allow any and all Keith Baker Publications material, and that's 3PP. So my answer is, "I don't allow most 3PP material, but most of my games I allow some specific 3PP material."

 

[EzekielRaiden]

Not sure how to answer this based on the games I run. I generally like my players to stick to official content where possible, for a number of reasons. However, I DM in Eberron a lot, and I allow any and all Keith Baker Publications material, and that's 3PP. So my answer is, "I don't allow most 3PP material, but most of my games I allow some specific 3PP material."

There is a reason I put "5e Players," rather than "5e DMs."

I'm interested in the experiences you've had while playing in a game run by others. In your experience, do other DMs allow the use of 3PP?

To be clear, folks who play mostly in your Eberron games and not really much of anywhere else should vote "Very frequently/always" or "More often than not," because those would accurately describe what you run. As I said above, I don't care whether there are filters in place for limiting some 3PP, even if it's "essentially everything is forbidden with extreme prejudice, except <X approved thing>." As long as a game permits even one piece of 3PP, it would count toward that player getting to use 3PP. (Again, excluding table-specific homebrew, e.g. "DM wrote an extra class you can play if you want" or "DM has some bonus feats and spells to choose from" would be table-specific homebrew unless it's meaningfully published for public consumption somewhere.)

 

[Seramus]

I don't care whether there are filters in place for limiting some 3PP, even if it's "essentially everything is forbidden with extreme prejudice, except <X approved thing>." As long as a game permits even one piece of 3PP, it would count toward that player getting to use 3PP.

But it does feel like a very important distinction. Does your poll give you the data you are looking for if someone answers "Very frequently / always" when their overall policy is saying NO to any 3PP beyond a single exception?

If yes, then okay. But I would personally rate groups that have such a policy as "Very rarely / never."

 

[EzekielRaiden]

But it does feel like a very important distinction. Does your poll give you the data you are looking for if the answer is "Always one publisher, but never any others?"

If yes, then okay. But I would personally rate groups that have such a policy as "Very rarely/never."

I am giving maximum credence to the claim (as noted, made by someone on this forum) that it is shocking to hear that, as a player, one has essentially never been permitted to use any 3PP.

Hence, to allow even a single piece, no matter how limited or partial, would qualify. Certainly, if we wished to know finer detail like this, an actual survey with multiple questions would be extremely important. "If your DM permits 3PP, how many sources of it would they be willing to approve for your use?" with answers on the standard five-point graduated scale from "essentially any source" to "only one specific source."

But since you can't do multiple thread questions, and my only real interest was examining the claim/belief that it's intensely unusual (to the point of being deeply confusing) that a person could have been consistently denied permission to use 3PP as a player in 5e, I only need the one question, and I have specifically structured it to be as favorable as possible to the claim/belief under scrutiny.

 

[Seramus]

I am giving maximum credence to the claim (as noted, made by someone on this forum) that it is shocking to hear that, as a player, one has essentially never been permitted to use any 3PP.

Hence, to allow even a single piece, no matter how limited or partial, would qualify.

Then I will go ahead and use Very Frequently / Always as my official vote since the majority of Critical Role material is 3PP.

 

[Zardnaar]

I tried forums (four different ones, including ENWorld), I tried PbP, I tried Roll20 and one of its competitors that I no longer remember the name of (mostly because it was a complete dud), I tried pitching concepts, I tried Reddit, I tried Discord. (Discord produces a lot of games, but not a lot of hits, if you get my meaning.) Started out looking for 4e, loosened that to 4e-adjacent (e.g. 13A), loosened that to other systems I wanted to see (e.g. Shadowrun 5e), loosened it again to "alright anything that isn't D&D 5e that I've actually heard of, and isn't a horror game," then to "alright, fine, I guess I'll look at 5e games and be picky about them," and finally to just looking for any 5e game that might, possibly, maybe play like something I could enjoy.

What, exactly, was I supposed to do better/different? I haven't the money to pay to play, nor would I do so even if I could. I don't have reliable transportation, and even if I did I have terrible social anxiety, so physical in-person games are essentially impossible for me (doubly so once the pandemic hit).

I tried. I got nothing, out of more than a year of searching, regularly, multiple times a week, consistently. Applying to at least one game every week, consistently. The games I got into? They died before they hit six sessions (or the equivalent for PbP.) Often before they even hit four. I put up "looking for DM" pitches. Zero replies. I entered my name in "player looking for group" lists. Zero messages. I even rustled up a group of folks I knew from various forums, but we...didn't gel, shall we say.

And all of this was after I'd already found and lost two actually fun, great groups, the former (4e D&D) to IRL family disaster taking the DM away, the latter (13A) due to the PbP DM ghosting us right as our adventure was about to go somewhere new.

I tried.

Doesn't really work like that. I've gamed with ENworlders.

If you have niche tastes you can't really pitch an idea for what you want to a DM. More likely you're going to put your game out there to attract players.

I found a player I actively wanted to recruit. My game was full and I wasn't the DM.

I asked that potential player what they liked and wanted. They wanted an OSR game so supplied some material for them to look through.

We settled on Castles and Crusades started a 2 player game Greek themed. Word got around and I've got 5 players now.

I live in a small city (130k) in New Zealand. I managed to play in game once with 9 players in a town of 12000.

I would run a 4E game but one would have to supply the materials or be happy with DMG, PHB, MM, pay me and find the players. You get 1 session free as a sample.

From 2019-23 essentially I got my D&D material for free. Store owners gave me store credit via a nominal fee for players. Good night 20+ players 3 games.

I ran the advanced sessions, another DM ran the beginner friendly one she funneled players my way and the other DM she had the largest group with 8 or 9 players depending on the night.

I used to help with MtG organization. One year we sent the second largest contingent to nationals from out smallest city. One of the lads won and went to the USA.

Some of those kids at the time are now mid 30s. One of them are in my game. 20th anniversary this year.

If I get to play odds are I've trained that DM.

Another games store is trying to get games organized. As I understand it they can't get them up and running.

I don't play or run online it's not worth the hassle for me. NZs nicer than rando's online.

When I was involved in Magic it was another prime player recruitment place. Talk to people about 1 in 10 were interested in D&D but our pool was 20-40 people depending on the day so 2-4 players right there.

I've basically described myself as LN DM. There's a reason for that LG games tend to be try and keep everyone happy but often devolve into CG games and fall apart.

Back in 2008 or so our MtG group chipped in and bought gaming tables. They've bounced around the city since then but turned up at a store and I was using them into 2023.

MtG and D&D players are often similar. Not very organized, turn up when they want (fine for mtg, D&D not so much), and most don't want to do much themselves.

Both of my games are 3pp material because that's what the players chose this time around. Both are curated in what you can play and content allowed.

 

[LordEntrails]

How about if you were working with a new group for whatever reason? Not a one-shot, something intended to be longer-term. E.g. let's say you have an acquaintance (not exactly a friend, but someone you've met and got along with) who got a wild hair and decided to run a new 5e game, and felt you would be a good fit for it.

Would you expect such a "hell no" response?

Wasn't Hell no. But I would not be surprised by such a response. Myself as DM I would certainly consider it and might allow it if the player was sincere, mature, and understood that we might have to change it in the future if it proved to not be a good fit.

I rarely say "No" as a DM, and almost never "Hell no". But I do often say something like "Tell me more" or "Maybe, let's talk".