D&D 5E 5e Players: How often have you been allowed to use 3PP?

How often have you been allowed to use 3PP as a 5e player?

  • Very frequently/always

  • More often than not

  • About half the time

  • Occasionally

  • Very rarely/never


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Hussar

Legend
That's nonsense. It's only been possible to play with strangers over the internet for a couple of years. It's hardly reasonable to expect a game that is about to cerebrate it's 50th anniversary to have been designed with that in mind. D&D, like the vast majority of boardgames, was designed to be played with friends. It's hardly the game designer's problem if you don't have any.
Umm... I've been playing VTT since 2002. I've actually almost been playing online over VTT longer than I've played in person. It's getting pretty close. My first VTT was OpenRPG using Python. Then Maptools. Then a brief foray into Roll20 followed by Fantasy Grounds. VTT play has been around for a LONG time.

But, @EzekielRaiden's basic point I think is a pretty apt one. As a player, your odds of getting a 3pp at a table is pretty hit or miss. If I were to come up to a table, cold, and basically playing with strangers, I certainly would never expect that I could pull out my copy of Kobold Press' Tome of Heroes and expect to be able to use Gun Mastery fighter. Frankly, I wouldn't even suggest it because I would simply assume that answer would be no. That's certainly been my experience as a player.

That's largely why I am so likely to say yes when players ask me to use 3pp. I WANT players to bring stuff like this up. I want to expand the library of material used at the table beyond just WotC. But, most of the time, the players won't even look at the stuff I bring to the table, never minding bringing stuff of their own.
 
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As a player, your odds of getting a 3pp at a table is pretty hit or miss. If I were to come up to a table, cold, and basically playing with strangers, I certainly would never expect that I could pull out my copy of Kobold Press' Tome of Heroes and expect to be able to use Gun Mastery fighter. Frankly, I wouldn't even suggest it because I would simply assume that answer would be no. That's certainly been my experience as a player.
And I would add that is perfectly reasonable. It's not reasonable to expect strangers to go out and acquire the 3PP stuff that you own, or to trust that you aren't gong to try and give yourself an advantage by choosing something massively overpowered.

To play with strangers, everyone has to be using the same rules. Indeed, the idea that the DM has final say is also problematic, because there is no more reason a stranger-DM should be trusted than a stranger-Player. To be played with strangers, the game needs to be more like chess, with the rules set in stone and agreed by everyone.

This is directly antithetical to a game designed to be played with friends and family, where rules are looser and often deliberately different as part of tribal bonding. Monopoly is a good example of this. It's very rare that home games play RAW.

I.e. a game can do the one (a competitive game played with strangers), or it can do the other (a group bonding game played with the tribe), but if it tries to do both it will fail at both.
 

Hussar

Legend
snip

I.e. a game can do the one (a competitive game played with strangers), or it can do the other (a group bonding game played with the tribe), but if it tries to do both it will fail at both.
Oh, don't get me wrong. I wasn't saying that anyone was doing anything wrong. Like you say, it's very understandable.

It is, however, somewhat lamentable. The lack of trust - both of the players and of the material - makes such things just that much more difficult. OTOH, I have almost always had fantastic luck with allowing players to use whatever 3pp stuff they bring to the table, whether they are a stranger or not. I think people really, really need to relax a lot and be a lot more open minded about this sort of thing. It makes for better games.
 

DEFCON 1

Legend
Supporter
Not being able to find a game (general) you wish to play in a manner you wish to play it is disheartening and frustrating. That is completely understandable.

Having to change (general) your preferred choice of game or play in a manner you don't prefer if given the choice because it's the only way to sit at a table and play a game is unfortunate but at least doable and better than nothing. That is completely understandable.

Wanting the only games (general) you can find seats at to change how they work so that they become more like your preferred choice or playstyle is unlikely to be done. After all, if you cannot find players who will run or play games in the manner you'd prefer, to think the solution is for the game you don't like to get turned into a game you'd prefer (at the expense of everyone else who is fine with the game as-is) is kind of ridiculous to ask for or expect.
 

Hussar

Legend
Not being able to find a game (general) you wish to play in a manner you wish to play it is disheartening and frustrating. That is completely understandable.

Having to change (general) your preferred choice of game or play in a manner you don't prefer if given the choice because it's the only way to sit at a table and play a game is unfortunate but at least doable and better than nothing. That is completely understandable.

Wanting the only games (general) you can find seats at to change how they work so that they become more like your preferred choice or playstyle is unlikely to be done. After all, if you cannot find players who will run or play games in the manner you'd prefer, to think the solution is for the game you don't like to get turned into a game you'd prefer (at the expense of everyone else who is fine with the game as-is) is kind of ridiculous to ask for or expect.
Just to play devil's advocate here though, there's a difference between wanting to rewrite a table's playstyle and wanting to use (as a totally random example) a 3rd party race for your PC. Again, presuming that it's not totally going against the grain of the table - ie. the table is groovy with Volo's Guide races, so, can I please play a ((insert 3pp race)?

Now, fair enough. You want to add a completely new magic system to the game, ok, yeah, that's not going to go over well.

But, in most cases, as a player, I don't think most of the things that people are going to bring to the table from 3pp is going to apply to more than just their character. It shouldn't be this huge ask to come to the DM with something by, say, Wolfgang Baur to use at the table.
 

DEFCON 1

Legend
Supporter
Just to play devil's advocate here though, there's a difference between wanting to rewrite a table's playstyle and wanting to use (as a totally random example) a 3rd party race for your PC. Again, presuming that it's not totally going against the grain of the table - ie. the table is groovy with Volo's Guide races, so, can I please play a ((insert 3pp race)?

Now, fair enough. You want to add a completely new magic system to the game, ok, yeah, that's not going to go over well.

But, in most cases, as a player, I don't think most of the things that people are going to bring to the table from 3pp is going to apply to more than just their character. It shouldn't be this huge ask to come to the DM with something by, say, Wolfgang Baur to use at the table.
In truth my comment about someone wanting to change the game was actually in reference to wanting WotC to re-write the rules so that the stuff they preferred was put into the actual rulebooks-- that way they could get what they wanted while the table could continue to play without 3PP. :) And that's an expectation I don't think has much merit or likelihood.
 

Hussar

Legend
In truth my comment about someone wanting to change the game was actually in reference to wanting WotC to re-write the rules so that the stuff they preferred was put into the actual rulebooks-- that way they could get what they wanted while the table could continue to play without 3PP. :) And that's an expectation I don't think has much merit or likelihood.

Well, likelihood I’ll agree with. The 79% mandate will keep out any larger changes.

But it would be nice for 5e to live up to the modular promise.
 

Blue

Ravenous Bugblatter Beast of Traal
Got an odd corner case, not sure how to vote it.

DM: If you want any 3pp, bring it to me and I'll review it for approval.
3 campaigns pass (4+ years): No players bring 3pp to get evaluated.

That group is just not as interested in mechanics as the default ENWorldian.
 

DEFCON 1

Legend
Supporter
But it would be nice for 5e to live up to the modular promise.
Sorry mate, but that complaint's only just over a decade old. I talked to WotC and they said they can't make that right until they satisfy all the people who are still pissed off and complaining that the Gnome didn't appear in the first 4E Player's Handbook and they had to wait eight months till PHB II. Once they take care of all those people they'll get around to making amends for that modular "promise" that one dude made. :D
 

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