D&D 5E 5E Survivor - Subclasses (Part IV: Clerics)

[DND_Reborn]

I wanted Knowledge, myself.

But a "mini" version with the finalists could be justifiable?

How many finalists? Here are the domains with their highest vote totals.

We could select only those with scores above 30 or 25 or something?

Or select the last "X" number of Domains and restart with those?

526 Tempest
512 Knowledge
489 Grave
482 (Light)
455 War
392 Forge
377 Life
272 Order
252 Arcana
250 Trickery

I would suggest a cut-off either at War because of the gap between War and Forge OR at Life because of the gap between Life and Order.

In both of those gaps we had a lot of votes back and forth.

Or combine the two ideas, since these rank best on both lists:

Forge (voted out early compared to the rest by high maximum score)
Grave
Knowledge (lower maximum score but lasted to the end really)
Light
Tempest
War

Forge and Knowledge are the questionable ones on the list, but IMO make it due to high score and lasting to the end of the original vote.

So, if @CleverNickName wants to "finalists" round, I would go with:

Forge 20
Grave 20
Knowledge 20
Light 20
Order 20
Tempest 20
War 20

And let the voting begin!

Either way, if we don't do something, Tempest won because of a voting error.

 

[CleverNickName]

Well, @CleverNickName, it looks like we have a new winner: Light Domain.

Ennngh...I don't think so, folks. It sucks that there was a math error, but I don't think it was egregious enough to merit s retcons.

You see, that extra +1 would have been eliminated in Post #482. Light's score would have been 2 instead of 1 at that point, so it would have been downvoted to 0 instead of -1 (and still removed).

Tempest goes to the final round.

 

[DeviousQuail]

There were days to catch that error before the final vote. Redoing it now would definitely change how people vote particularly anyone who wasn't happy with tempest winning.

 

[Ulorian - Agent of Chaos]

It appears this Survivor isn't over... The Light domain was decreased without being downvoted (shown above) between posts 447 and 448 and never corrected. The votes since then are:

(448 -2: 9 INCORRECT DECREASE -- SHOULD BE 11)
452 +1: 12
453 -2: 10
457 -2: 8
458 +1: 9
463 +1: 10
464 +1: 11
471 -2: 9
475 -2: 7
476 +1: 8
477 +1: 9
478 -2: 7
479 -2: 5
480 -2: 3
482 -2: 1 (final downvote thinking Light Domain gone)

So, since the Light Domain still has 1, I am voting:

Light Domain 1+1 = 2
Tempest Domain 3 - 1 = 1

Next vote decides it. Perhaps it will still be Tempest...

Oops! Sorry folks! Not sure how that happened...

 

[DND_Reborn]

Ennngh...I don't think so, folks. It sucks that there was a math error, but I don't think it was egregious enough to merit s retcons.

You see, that extra +1 would have been eliminated in Post #482. Light's score would have been 2 instead of 1 at that point, so it would have been downvoted to 0 instead of -1 (and still removed).

Tempest goes to the final round.

The math error was 2 points downvoted, not 1, so Light's score would have been 3 prior to being downvoted. If it was just 1 it wouldn't have made a difference (as you say).

The last downvote left it at 1 point. You might not want to run it, but yeah, it is still there otherwise and basically invalidates your Survivor threads because it means any of the others could also have errors, which might have been more egregious, and you also choose to ignore.

I'm not surprised you won't run a "semi-finalist" redo since nearly half your upvotes (all but one for the second half of the voting) went to Tempest--you wanted Tempest to win so I am sure you're happy to ignore the mistake...

There were days to catch that error before the final vote. Redoing it now would definitely change how people vote particularly anyone who wasn't happy with tempest winning.

And I'm sure it doesn't make everyone else happy, either. Someone would have to spend their downvote on Light to remove it, meaning any of those others might have made it to the end.

Oops! Sorry folks! Not sure how that happened...

I'm not sure, either. Your post was a few minutes after the prior one, which you would have copied (I imagine anyway.... that is what I do). Maybe you changed it thinking to downvote it but changed your mind and forgot to reset it?

 

[DeviousQuail]

The math error was 2 points downvoted, not 1, so Light's score would have been 3 prior to being downvoted. If it was just 1 it wouldn't have made a difference (as you say).

The last downvote left it at 1 point. You might not want to run it, but yeah, it is still there otherwise and basically invalidates your Survivor threads because it means any of the others could also have errors, which might have been more egregious, and you also choose to ignore.

I'm not surprised you won't run a "semi-finalist" redo since nearly half your upvotes (all but one for the second half of the voting) went to Tempest--you wanted Tempest to win so I am sure you're happy to ignore the mistake...


And I'm sure it doesn't make everyone else happy, either. Someone would have to spend their downvote on Light to remove it, meaning any of those others might have made it to the end.


I'm not sure, either. Your post was a few minutes after the prior one, which you would have copied (I imagine anyway.... that is what I do). Maybe you changed it thinking to downvote it but changed your mind and forgot to reset it?

It's unfair of you to assume Clevernickname wants to keep the results just because they liked tempest. The bigger issue is determining if/how we redo this in a way that's fair. Should we recheck every vote from the first to make sure Light wasn't the only bad count? Do we start restart with certain subclasses all at 20? What's the threshold for being in that vote? Should we restart from where the vote was missed? How long are we allowed to recheck votes after they've been missed? How long after a Victor is declared do we have to redo it? Should it be done in a new thread in case people have unmatched from this one? How do we decide any of this?

 

[Maxperson]

Ennngh...I don't think so, folks. It sucks that there was a math error, but I don't think it was egregious enough to merit s retcons.

You see, that extra +1 would have been eliminated in Post #482. Light's score would have been 2 instead of 1 at that point, so it would have been downvoted to 0 instead of -1 (and still removed).

Tempest goes to the final round.

I just look at it like a bad NFL call. It sucks that it happened, but the winner was still already determined.

 

[fluffybunbunkittens]

Yeah, Tempest's already got soulless entities lining up to brand their armor with corporate logos, and they have a shoe line coming out carrying their name! Too late for backsies, you can call this, like, a divinely inspired happenstance.

 

[DND_Reborn]

t's unfair of you to assume Clevernickname wants to keep the results just because they liked tempest.

I would expect that from someone who upvoted Tempest every single vote, including the "winning" (if you can call it that...) vote!

The bigger issue is determining if/how we redo this in a way that's fair.

I already addressed that in post #531 above.

Should we recheck every vote from the first to make sure Light wasn't the only bad count?

I already did. There were earlier mistakes, but those were caught and the poll corrected.

Do we start restart with certain subclasses all at 20?

That was my suggestion.

What's the threshold for being in that vote?

Again, in post #531.

How long are we allowed to recheck votes after they've been missed?

Someone should be checking them with each vote, to correct mistakes within 24 hours IMO.

I didn't have time to check these until last night, so I did then; otherwise it would have been caught sooner.

How long after a Victor is declared do we have to redo it?

The Victor shouldn't be declared until it is done. Otherwise, how can you know the victor was legitimate?

When the voting reaches a finale, the votes should be checked within 24 hours if possible and the victor declared. If the votes are checked daily, but the end hopefully any mistakes would have already been fixed.

Should it be done in a new thread in case people have unmatched from this one?

A new thread would probably be best IMO.

How do we decide any of this?

By offering options and asking for feedback.

FWIW, I think whoever runs the voting should not vote. CleverNickName voted for Protection initially, saw it had been voted out since their last upvote, and moved on to nine upvotes for Tempest (with a single upvote for Life when it was floundering).

I just look at it like a bad NFL call. It sucks that it happened, but the winner was still already determined.

Victors can be changed in all kinds of sports after the fact. We have the ability to right an error in the voting to ensure the result is accurate, it wouldn't even be that hard to implement.

Yeah, Tempest's already got soulless entities lining up to brand their armor with corporate logos, and they have a shoe line coming out carrying their name! Too late for backsies, you can call this, like, a divinely inspired happenstance.

Divinely inspired by whom, though?

 

[CleverNickName]

You're wrong about me and my reasoning, though. I wanted Protection to win, @DND_Reborn . It was clearly the best option in the list, and I only switched to Tempest for lack of a better option.

But you're right about one thing, I don't want to retcon it. (Seriously? "The validity of my Survivor threads?" That's not a thing. They are not valid for anything; this is and has always been just a popularity contest. A really weird popularity contest.)

The trouble with a retcon, as @DeviousQuail says, is doing one fairly, while upsetting as few people as possible. That is the real damage to the "validity of The Survivor thread," if such a thing exists.

THAT SAID: I'm not an unreasonable imaginary JRPG character. If the Protection Domain has taught me anything, it's that what I want doesn't count for much. If enough people agree that some sort of special exception should be made, I'll think of something (it still won't be a retcon or a rematch, tho.)