D&D 5E 5Eing Action Points, Drama Points, Fate Point, Hero Points, Etc.

[Mark CMG]

So what are folks various feelings and experiences with systems that include Action Points, Drama Points, Fate Points, Hero Points, etc. as part of the system, either core or optional, and how would you like to see them handled in 5E?


My solution? "Leveraging your Level." At each level a PC gets a number of points in a pool equal to their level that they can use during an Event to adjust a die roll or die rolls after the fact but they need to narratively explain how it manifests. It is meant to be encouraged by the GM and to add to the roleplaying and/or storytelling.

For example, if a PC misses a target number during an attack by one, the GM might suggest that they are close (or even say they missed by one) and ask if the player wishes to Leverage their Level, so the PC would add one to the die roll and, perhaps, simply explain that they are putting a little more muscle behind it. So, too, when a PC is picking a lock and misses the attempt by a couple of points, another player who (let's say) is second level could suggest that they accidently bump into the PC who is picking the lock and it happens to cause the attempt to be successful. A PC might throw a frying pan across a room to deflect the dagger thrust of a barroom brawler from skewing his comrade. Any number of creative justifications could be allowable depending on the imaginations of the players and GM, the GM also being encouraged to assist in suggesting ways it might be incorporated, like mentioning that there are frying pans nearby.

(An Event in this system is a nebulous leveling device that replaces XP and, depending on the druthers of the GM or group, could be a single encounter, a series of encounters, a player group goal, etc.)

 

[Li Shenron]

Yours a nice idea actually.

But generally speaking I think AP and similar should really be optional, because usually they fall into two types:

(a) AP designed to be used for fairly minor benefits, such getting a bonus, a reroll, or an extra action. These are balanced benefits and hardly break the game, sometimes can save a PC from death, but they are most commonly used to avoid the effect of bad luck, and only once in a while they are used to create a cool "stunt". IMHO they don't significantly change the gaming experience and as such are unnecessary for most gaming groups, hence better be optional.

(b) AP designed to really allow to creatively bend the rules of the game every now and then, to help the players solve problems in unexpected ways (mostly because near-impossible without AP), typically with a "flashy" scene. This type of AP is usually rules-light and very subjective, so it's even less suitable to be a mandatory part of the game.

 

[JRRNeiklot]

I'm a "let the dice fall as they may" person, so I detest action points. The very notion of them makes me want to drown a kitten.

 

[Ahnehnois]

Mechanically, I think action points are a great opportunity to reduce lethality for PCs while allowing for a lower hp (or non-hp) "grittier" health system.

I also think they're a great opportunity to give Charisma a mechanical niche. Either their effects or their acquisition can be modified by Charisma. Fortune favors the bold, does it not?

I like systems that allow very free-form action point use; essentially the player asks for something and has a tangible resource (points that could be used to increase die rolls) to bargain with.

I dislike systems that do rerolls for action points or break basic laws of the game. An action point should be that little extra boost you get when you're desperate, not a reality-bending mulligan.

I don't know that action points should be built into the core system as in TB or d20 M, but they were good in UA and I'd like to see them presented in some form.

I.m a "let the dice fall as they may" person, so I detest action points. The very notion of them makes me want to drown a kitten.

I agree with letting the dice fall as they may, but IMO those action point dice as an extra little boost is reasonable. If you think a world with action points can't be hardcore tough, you haven't seen my games. Then again, they're not really part of the core of D&D historically and I don't begrudge anyone who dislikes them.

 

[Tallifer]

I really like how action points work in the Fourth Edition. Just an extra action. Start with one each day, get more for each milestone. They are fun, but not brokenly powerful neither do they create arguments since they are precise and limited.

 

[Mark CMG]

I haven't seen any leaks regarding an action point mechanic in the basic playtests at DDXP yet. Anyone else?

 

[BobTheNob]

I dislike systems that do rerolls for action points or break basic laws of the game. An action point should be that little extra boost you get when you're desperate, not a reality-bending mulligan.

Funny That. Our group is finished 4e, and to tide us over till 5e is ready, Im currently putting together a game using the FATE system. If people dont know it, it uses "fate points" as a central mechanism to ALLOW players to alter the terms of the adventure. It encourages reality-bending, in fact, its totally structured around it.

But thats that game, not D&D. Its a whole different affair and I wonder at "Karma" resources (what I like to call them...that "Pool of luck") as a "tack on" to a static system such as D&D. It might be different if it was baked directly into the core, but for something like D&D, Im not overly fond.

 

[Olgar Shiverstone]

I can see some version being an optional rule. I used hero points in my 3.5 campaigns (= auto success on a roll) and action points in 4E, and found that both worked well for my games. Your mileage may vary.

 

[Mark CMG]

Seems most people who want something like this think it should be optional. MAkes sense as that keeps DMs from feeling pressured into allowing it by default.

 

[nedjer]

So what are folks various feelings and experiences with systems that include Action Points, Drama Points, Fate Points, Hero Points, etc. as part of the system, either core or optional, and how would you like to see them handled in 5E?


My solution? "Leveraging your Level." At each level a PC gets a number of points in a pool equal to their level that they can use during an Event to adjust a die roll or die rolls after the fact but they need to narratively explain how it manifests. It is meant to be encouraged by the GM and to add to the roleplaying and/or storytelling.

For example, if a PC misses a target number during an attack by one, the GM might suggest that they are close (or even say they missed by one) and ask if the player wishes to Leverage their Level, so the PC would add one to the die roll and, perhaps, simply explain that they are putting a little more muscle behind it. So, too, when a PC is picking a lock and misses the attempt by a couple of points, another player who (let's say) is second level could suggest that they accidently bump into the PC who is picking the lock and it happens to cause the attempt to be successful. A PC might throw a frying pan across a room to deflect the dagger thrust of a barroom brawler from skewing his comrade. Any number of creative justifications could be allowable depending on the imaginations of the players and GM, the GM also being encouraged to assist in suggesting ways it might be incorporated, like mentioning that there are frying pans nearby.

(An Event in this system is a nebulous leveling device that replaces XP and, depending on the druthers of the GM or group, could be a single encounter, a series of encounters, a player group goal, etc.)

Stunt point instants Off to wonder how that could work for the opposition too. It's good to cut players some slack, but no need to go soft on them

 

[SensoryThought]

I like APs or stunt points or those mechanics that allow for spectacular success when the PLAYER deems it important. It is great for heroic style games, but i admit it is probably less suited for gritty games.

I find xp rewards for roleplaying don't work well in D&D - as a DM I feel compelled to normalize xp as if a pc gets one or two levels higher than the others it kicks game balance in the teeth. Giving out AP rewards as an immediate attaboy allows me a valuable positive feedback mechanism with my players.

 

[delericho]

I'm not a fan of Fate Point type mechanics in general, and really don't like the Action Point implementation in 3e Eberron. A combination of wanting to let the dice lie where they fall, thinking that PCs already have enough cool stuff to do without some nebulous "do something cool" game-breaker, and (perhaps ironically) not thinking PCs should have to have a point to spend in order to do something cool in the first place!

However, I really like the implementation of Action Points in 4e. The only refinement I'd make would be to give out an Action Point at the start of every encounter, and adopt a "use it or lose it" policy - no banking them for the BBEG!

 

[Greg K]

I want M&M Hero Points and Complications.

 

[Consonant Dude]

So what are folks various feelings and experiences with systems that include Action Points, Drama Points, Fate Points, Hero Points, etc. as part of the system, either core or optional, and how would you like to see them handled in 5E?

I think they are an amazing option for DnD because they can balance out random chargen.

A system where your X points are calculated based on your ability scores is perfect. The higher your ability scores, the less X points you get.

Random chargen is fun but getting screwed by luck isn't. This makes every PC relevant.

 

[harlokin]

However, I really like the implementation of Action Points in 4e. The only refinement I'd make would be to give out an Action Point at the start of every encounter, and adopt a "use it or lose it" policy - no banking them for the BBEG!

I agree, but I would prefer that there was no automatic recovery, instead that it becomes a DM reward for good role-playing, perhaps linked to character motivation (like Willpower recovery in Vampire).

 

[kitsune9]

I'm a "let the dice fall as they may" person, so I detest action points. The very notion of them makes me want to drown a kitten.

Ouch. Letting dice fall where they may is probably where I'm at, but drowning a kitten? They're just so cute!

 

[Lord Mhoram]

I've seen action points in D&D to be something that is used to get around the strict rules to do something extra cool.

With D&D Next being about the "theater of the imagination" and the interplay between the GM and player, you don't need action points. Just describe the cool thing you want to do. GM gives you advantage or something.

 

[Rhenny]

delericho,

That's how I run my campaign now. The PCs have 1 AP per encounter...use or lose, so do some monsters. My players love it, and I think it speeds up combat a tiny bit.

I'd be happy to house rule this option or have it as an option for 5e. I don't think they need to include it in the core.

 

[KarinsDad]

I'm all for action points, fate points, karma points, drama points, hero points, whatever.

As long as they are not in the core rules and are in one of those funny little optional side modules that Monty keeps talking about, it's all good.

 

[El Mahdi]

I absolutely love Action Points.

I made the argument that Healing Surges should be part of core because they can be easily ignored if one doesn't want them. I think Action Points would be even easier to ignore. But I may be changing my mind on whether they should be core or not...I'm getting more torn between the choices. The only thing I'm sure of, I don't envy the designers of D&D Next the job they have in some of the choices they'll need to make.

But, even if not core, I think they definitely deserve a place as an add-on module. I've made them a core part of my houseruled 3E game.