5th lvl Crusader - my post game thoughts

[welby]

I played my 5th level crusader for the first time this weekend. My goal of this character was to soak up as much damage as possible. Mission accomplished. Crusaders can take hits like nothing else. And if this was all he could do, there wouldn't be a problem.

My other party members are a 5th cleric and a 3 wiz/2 rog. Unfortunately, I completely outshown them. The cleric never needed to heal since revitalizing strike healed quite a lot. Foehammer and Charging Minotaur allowed me do sweet damage for my level. With the extra granted maneuver feat, oftentimes the maneuver I wanted to use was available to me. The abilities themselves aren't all the overpowered, but given the virtually unlimited times I can use maneuvers (just a few rounds on cooldown) it just gets silly.

One thought I had was that at 5th level I'm theoretically at my most powerful since I do not have additional attacks yet and the abilities all take standard actions. Another thought I had was that maybe crusaders aren't good in boss battles due to the boss' typically higher AC coupled with the crusader's need to hit to use his abilities. But right now, compairing the crusader to a equal level fighter/barbarian/paladin it seems that the crusader is grossly overpowered.

I don't want to be an overpowered character, but the crusader does have what I want in a class. What do you guys think? As crusaders gain levels do the scale more appropriately? Have you noticed them being balanced at 5th level and I need to work with my DM to exploit more of his weaknesses? Looking for thoughts, ideas, or past experiences.

My stats are below, thanks.


Human Crusader 5th

str 17 dex 12 con 16 int 12 wis 12 cha 11
AC - 22 HP - 59
fort +8 ref +3 wis +3

maneuvers - Crusader's Strike, Stone Bone's, Leading the Attack, Charging Minotaur, Foehammer, Shield Block, Revitalizing Strike

stances - Martial Spirit, Roots of the Mountain
Feats - Stone Power, Extra Granted Maneuver, Vital Recovery

 

[Cheiromancer]

Human Crusader 5th

str 17 dex 12 con 1 int 12 wis 12 cha 11
AC - 22 HP - 59
fort +8 ref +3 wis +3

maneuvers - Crusader's Strike, Stone Bone's, Leading the Attack, Charging Minotaur, Foehammer, Shield Block, Revitalizing Strike

stances - Martial Spirit, Roots of the Mountain
Feats - Stone Power, Extra Granted Maneuver, Vital Recovery

Did he run afoul of wraiths at some point?

 

[welby]

Did he run afoul of wraiths at some point?

no, but I ran afoul of a typo.

 

[Nifft]

Your Crusader may be at his most powerful. Or at least, his most spotlight-hogging.

The Rogue/Wizard is not powerful by any means. At 5th level, a Wizard should be throwing around fireballs and personally killin' at least one phalanx of goblins each day. Perhaps when he gets

Clerics hit their melee stride when they have access to divine power and righteous might (9th level or so). Until then, they're better support characters (casting bless and the like) than spotlight-hogs.

Basically, in that party, you are the focused guy who can be most effective by himself. The other two are better suited to support you. In a couple of levels, the game will change -- which PrC is the Rogue/Wizard going to take? If it's Arcane Trickster, he's going to suck pretty much forever. If it's Unseen Seer, he should seriously consider redoing his character to be a Rogue 1 / Wizard 4 / USeer. He can mix in ATrickster levels once he's well into USeer.

Cheers, -- N

 

[EyeontheMountain]

I do think level 3-7 or so is the TOB's classes strongest areas. They have good attacks, and are getting powerful strikes. (plus choosing to replace one at 4th, 6th and 8th from 1st to 3rd plus is just crazy.) But they will fall off and fall off quickly as they are limited to fighting something just in front of them, and cannot even use their manouvers out of combat, or at least not most of htem. Strong fighters, but not really versatile for anything else. Have a flying 10 year old with a bow and sooner of later the crusader is dead.

 

[Cheiromancer]

And some of those maneuvers have quite irritating limitations. No Stone Dragon maneuvers when flying, for instance! (Does being on a boat count as being in contact with the ground?)

 

[James McMurray]

Does being on a boat count as being in contact with the ground?

I'd rule no. You're not in contact with the ground, you'd in contact with a boat. Allowing a boat to count as ground means that standing on pretty much anything should count as ground, including water, a mount, a flying carpet, etc.

 

[RigaMortus2]

The cleric never needed to heal since revitalizing strike healed quite a lot.

You never missed with your Revitalizing Strike then I take it? Wait until you (or your allies) are counting on that Revitalizing Strike to heal them, and then you miss with the attack. That really sucks. Happened quite often to a friend of mine who was playing a Crusader.

 

[welby]

You never missed with your Revitalizing Strike then I take it?

That is correct, I did not. It was a first night of the campaign/hordes of goblins type of thing. Encounters like this, a strong night of dice rolls, roots of the mountain DR, stone power, vital recovery, and the fact I was the one getting beat on by most mobs made healing in general not important.

That's also why I thought I might not be as effective against bosses where I would be missing more attacks.

Your Crusader may be at his most powerful. Or at least, his most spotlight-hogging.

The Rogue/Wizard is not powerful by any means. At 5th level, a Wizard should be throwing around fireballs and personally killin' at least one phalanx of goblins each day.

Clerics hit their melee stride when they have access to divine power and righteous might (9th level or so).

Unfortunately the rog/wiz tends to build characters that play out pretty useless for a while.
The cleric spent a few buffs spells on me (further empowering me) and used his spells pretty effectively. When he couldn't get over to a character to heal him but I used revitalizing strike to heal he made the comment, "is there anything your character can't do?" Last session it did not seem like there was something I couldn't do.

My maneuvers don't run out like a clerics spells do, I can take more damage than anyone, I healed more than the cleric, and I did more damage. I have very little experience with higher level play (thanks for nothing quitting DMs...) and even less experience with the Crusader. Will the cleric end up outdamaging me at some level? What about a pure class like the fighter or barbarian?

 

[BASHMAN]

Think of it this way-- you are allowing the cleric to be MORE than just a walking bandaid! He can actually CAST spells like Searing Light or Hold Person WITHOUT being yelled at by the other players, "How DARE you not save those spell slots to heal me?"

So don't think you are toe-stepping with him. You are giving him more opportunity to cast a lot of useful spells he'd otherwise not get a chance to.