D&D General 6E But A + Thread

[Uni-the-Unicorn!]

Cute. You admit you didn't read my post as it was too long and yet you somehow know I Denied you. Solid reply.

PS - I did start reading your post, but once you claimed it was a fault of my visualization twice, coupled with its length. I stopped reading.

 

[Uni-the-Unicorn!]

No. You 100% misread my post.
I was describing to you, how I believe, 5e doesn't use movement enough (forced and otherwise) in combat.
I think when a character is making saves for AoE they should be moving.
I think when a creature who is larger in size makes an attack against a character, the character should move (forced or otherwise).
And characters who run out of movement for reaction purposes may be more prone to be hurt.

And yet that has nothing to do with my troll story. You said or implied I felt the troll was acting crazy because I was used to the static nature of 5e combat. Here is what you said:
“…and given your description of a Tasmanian devil like troll the limited mechanics are informing your perception of combat.”

That is not true. I can go into more detail, but I didn’t see the point and that is a lot to type on my phone. I expected you to trust my account of my game experience. Since you don’t, I can go into more detail, but I will have to wait to see if you’re interested and when I have access to a computer.

 

[Minigiant]

Question?

Is HD matching class level a must?

Could we cut Con mod to HP (by default, make it a feat/species feature)?

Then make level 1 in classes 3 HD?

So a level 1 fighter has 3d10 HP. 16HP
level 1 cleric has 3d8 HP. 13HP
level 1 rogue has 3d6 HP. 10 HP
level 1 wizard has 3d4 HP. 7HP.

1HD and 2HD PC are novice levels.

 

[CreamCloud0]

Unfortunately, that is not true for a majority of tables.

Tables don't run enough encounters for that and fighters aren't tough enough for it.
DMs don't want to be forced to have 6 encounters and of long rest.
Players don't want to be forced to wait through 30 turns for each ally per long rest.

Now if Fighters had double their HP and got Indomitable at level 4 and Monster damage increased 50%, this might work.

Perhaps instead of Con mod per level to HP, Warriors get Con Score -10 per level to HP.

Give martials healing surges again, just add a line that says in their four entries ‘whenever you expend a hit die from this class to recover your HP you restore the die’s maximum value or 1/4 of your max HP, whichever is more, in addition to your CON mod’ and just watch the self recovery rolling in.

 

[AnotherGuy]

Maybe, though there's a case for making a save by ducking behind cover or briefly dropping prone.

I guess avoiding a fireball by briefly dropping prone is different to be knocked prone - it is just you are dropping prone always within the 5-ft square you're in. With ToM it works better, grid play not so much...

Again, maybe; it's easy enough in most cases to just assume the moved target immediately moves right back to where it was unless the foe is pressing forward; in which case there's no relative change in positioning anyway. The only time forced movement should be relevant is when a combat is taking place near a major hazard - a lava pool, a clifftop, quicksand, on a small boat, etc. - where unplanned movement could really make a difference.

I envision combat to be fluid where the fighter and rogue dance around the lumbering troll (they don't sit statically like in grid play) each taking swipes at it as it attempts to hurt them back with every cut inflicted on him. In grid play you do not see this play out, it is very static, dude moves makes all his attacks, troll retaliates and makes all his attacks, 2nd party member makes all his attacks etc... That is a reason why I prefer zones - it is closer to TotM
But should the troll connect with a PC, you'd imagine you'd move.

Now you've mentioned major hazards but there are other reasons for forced movement, particularly in D&D where we have the silly Attacks of Opportunity for leaving a threatened area which exist. In that instance that forced movement saves it an AoO.

How does this work in tight-quarters combat?

Let me reiterate, I'm talking about larger than PC creatures - so in tight-quarters these creatures are smashing PCs against the wall and furniture as a side-effect of their attack and thus additional damage would be inflicted and perhaps the PCs wielding larger weapons in such areas would have disadvantage on attacks...etc

 

[Lanefan]

Unfortunately, that is not true for a majority of tables.

Tables don't run enough encounters for that and fighters aren't tough enough for it.
DMs don't want to be forced to have 6 encounters and of long rest.
Players don't want to be forced to wait through 30 turns for each ally per long rest.

What I said could apply just as well to a single combat.

Fighters (in theory) have the best AC (unless their players are woefully unwise!) and the most hit points, thus can keep at it far longer than anyone else. Energizer bunnies.

 

[Uni-the-Unicorn!]

Again your description of the troll defending itself sounded static.

How does the descriptions of a Tasmanian devil (from buggs bunny) make it sound static. The whole point of describing it that way was to say it wasn’t static - it had crazy amount of movement- actions

 

[AnotherGuy]

And yet that has nothing to do with my troll story. You said or implied I felt the troll was acting crazy because I was used to the static nature of 5e combat. Here is what you said:
“…and given your description of a Tasmanian devil like troll the limited mechanics are informing your perception of combat.”

That is not true. I can go into more detail, but I didn’t see the point and that is a lot to type on my phone. I expected you to trust my account of my game experience. Since you don’t, I can go into more detail, but I will have to wait to see if you’re interested and when I have access to a computer.

You mentioned that it felt unrealistic that a troll could attack so many times during a round combat, I tried to frame the combat where each participant made their attack and the troll responded by lashing out as it got hurt.
The nature of combat, particularly in grid play and the turn base informs a static like perception. Like I can see a lumbering troll flailing about as each of the party members inflict damage....it just doesn't always translate well when we are dealing with mechanics.

 

[Minigiant]

What I said could apply just as well to a single combat.

Fighters (in theory) have the best AC (unless their players are woefully unwise!) and the most hit points, thus can keep at it far longer than anyone else. Energizer bunnies.

In modern D&D isn't only 1-2 AC more and 1-3 HP more per level.
Clerics wear the same armor and are only 1 HP lighter.

That's the bigger deal. Fighters aren't that much tougher unless the DM helps them.

 

[Lanefan]

Question?

Is HD matching class level a must?

Could we cut Con mod to HP (by default, make it a feat/species feature)?

Then make level 1 in classes 3 HD?

So a level 1 fighter has 3d10 HP. 16HP
level 1 cleric has 3d8 HP. 13HP
level 1 rogue has 3d6 HP. 10 HP
level 1 wizard has 3d4 HP. 7HP.

1HD and 2HD PC are novice levels.

That rather guts Con as a useful stat; how do you prop it back up?

Also, your level 1 is my level 3. That said, to avoid 1-hit-point wonders at 1st level you could add body points - a small species-based die that everyone gets regardless of class, with a floor value set by Con score.

How we do this: species sets the die you roll (Elves-Gnomes-Hobbits d4, Humans-PartElves d5, Dwarves-PartOrcs d6, others similar) and Con sets a floor - Con 7-14 = minimum 2 BP, Con 15-17 = minimum 3 BP, Con 18+ gives minimum 4. Once rolled, this BP value is locked in for life unless you lose a limb or similar.