D&D General 6E But A + Thread

[Remathilis]

But getting rid of ability scores in favor of just modifiers is too big of a change?

Let me discuss a little thing called aesthetics.

Ever look at things that are clearly D&D inspired but not actually D&D? I'm not talking any games, but merchandise or memes that references the game indirectly (a baby romper with an 18 Charisma score, a 9 panel meme about coffee alignment, or a bumper sticker that says "Jesus saves... And takes half damage"). That is part of the aesthetics of the game. Are ability scores of 18 integral to your game mechanics? No, they are increasingly useless. But they are a part of the aesthetic of D&D that a casual reference to a baby having an 18 Cha (because it's adorable and everyone loves them) is so ubiquitous that even non players get the reference. 18 = Good/best has seeped into the collective consciousness in a way that "rogues getting their second subclass feature at 9th level" hass not.

Which is part of the reason that someone people had deeper reservations about 4e's changes, despite some of them being objectively improved ideas. 7th level encounter powers might make much more mechanical sense than 3rd level spell, but the latter is a defining part of D&D's aesthetic that it feels wrong to not say it.

So there are some things I feel the game can't (yet?) walk away from without losing it's aesthetics. Alignment. Ability scores 3-18, +X weapons, saving throws as active defense. Spell slots 1-9 levels, class/species divide, hit points, etc.

Take away too much of that aesthetic and it ceases to be D&D, even if the replacement is objectively better.

 

[dave2008]

how does it not?
just use modifiers.
then when you get ASI level, increase one modifier by +1, or take 2 feats, no increase in stats with feats.

You replied to fast! I updated my post as follows:

"There is the problem. The current design of the game doesn't accommodate that.* Now, a revision to the game certainly could, but not my personal preference.

*To rephrase that: the current design has feats with +1 ability score bonus. You would eliminate that option if you got rid of ability scores for mods only (assume we don't want to track 1/2 modifier increase - which I sure don't)."

For example, in our game we don't allow straight ASI increases (+2 ASI), only feats. So a feat with a +1 ASI is important and not possible if we don't have ability scores.

 

[dave2008]

If it’s a hypothetical new edition, I’m looking for bigger changes anyways.

Yes, but the post I responded to mentioned "the current edition."

My list of changes is way back in post #26. After reading through all these ideas I would probably add a few more items too.

 

[Aldarc]

Let me discuss a little thing called aesthetics.

Sorry, but if you're going to start by talking down to me from your soap box, then I'm completely uninterested in anything further you have to say on this matter.

 

[dave2008]

Sorry, but if you're going to start by talking down to me from your soap box, then I'm completely uninterested in anything further you have to say on this matter.

That is to bad, I think they made a good point. Not sure I 100% agree with it, but it is relevant.

Also, I didn't think they were talking down to you. I think it is more an issue of not talking face to face. These things can be easily misconstrued because of the format (which means I could be wrong too!). Studies have shown humans do not express intent well through this style of communication - we lose so much in the process.

 

[Remathilis]

5.5 should have had that already, that it doesn’t is one of the reasons why I did not bother going with it. From a 6e I want more than that, but obviously different people want different things from ‘their’ 6e

While I agree they chickened out during 2024, I would still prefer 6e to be "let's redesign the fighter class from the ground up to improve combat" rather than "hey, we should make all classes play like PF2e" levels of changes.

 

[TiQuinn]

Yes, but the post I responded to mentioned "the current edition."

My list of changes is way back in post #26. After reading through all these ideas I would probably add a few more items too.

I can definitely get behind No ASIs outside of feats and I would add to that some magic items. I miss magic items being a driver for adventure in D&D, I.E. a key reason you go into dungeons.

 

[Remathilis]

Sorry, but if you're going to start by talking down to me from your soap box, then I'm completely uninterested in anything further you have to say on this matter.

You're loss. I was introducing a topic and trying to define a word that wasn't going to have a commonly used definition, but I can't make you listen.

 

[Horwath]

You replied to fast! I updated my post as follows:

There is the problem. The current design of the game doesn't accommodate that.* Now, a revision to the game certainly could, but not my personal preference.

*To rephrase that: the current design has feats with +1 ability score bonus. You would eliminate that option if you got rid of ability scores for mods only (assume we don't want to track 1/2 modifier increase - which I sure don't).

And I said what solution could be.
Either +1 mod or take 2 feats together without ASI bump.
no need to track +1/2 mod in the background.

For example, in our game we don't allow straight ASI increases (+2 ASI), only feats. So a feat with a +1 ASI is important and not possible if we don't have ability scores.

I like this idea.
do you allow also taking 2 feats together while forgoing their ASIs?
IE: I want to take GWM and PAM together at 4th level, without any STR boost?

 

[dave2008]

I can definitely get behind No ASIs outside of feats and I would add to that some magic items. I miss magic items being a driver for adventure in D&D, I.E. a key reason you go into dungeons.

Yep, we currently cap ability scores at 18 in my game. If you want something above 18 you need a magic item to get you there.