OD&D A 15 year old Baron had A 17 month old half Sister that despite being his half sister wasn't of noble birth, yet he provided for her, why?

[JMISBEST]

Yesterday I had yet another Dnd Dream and I have a question about it

A 15 year old Senior Baron had A 17 month old half Sister that despite being his half sister wasn't of noble birth, meaning he didn't have to provide for her and if he wanted to he could have had her placed in a orphanage before she was even 3 hours old

Despite that he took her in, ensured she was well fed, well clothed, well treated, loved, pampered and well treated and made plans for her adult life by arranging for her to 1 day marry the son of the minor Baron that's his vassal, but why would he do that?

I'm now correcting a mistake with the last paragraph that I forgot to correct, I then forgot that I'd forgot the correct those mistakes and that's the reason why it was left for a while and I've since corrected a few mistakes I made with this paragraph

In case your wondering how the 17 month old girl could be the half Sister of A 15 year old Senior Baron yet not be of noble birth its because the previous title holder was the 15 year old Senior Barons mother, his father was a commoner, the fathers the mutual parent and years after the 15 year old Senior Barons mother died the now 15 year old, who at the time of the girls birth was only 13 years., 10 and a half months old, Senior Barons father had a brief relationship with another commoner and the now 15 year old Senior Barons now 17 month old common born half Sister was the result

 

[Inukai]

I would say if he's marrying her off to the son of a vassal, it would be to insure the loyalty of the Barony going forward.
Also, the last paragraph reads wrong. It implies the 15 year old Senior Baron is actually the girl's father...

 

[ilgatto]

A wise @AnotherGuy once said:

@JMISBEST you honestly make the best threads!

Glad you're back, @JMISBEST!

 

[aco175]

Being only 15, people tend to be more compassionate than full adults that look to be more practical and learned to not deal with family.

One could also say that he cares for his sister and was in the position to do something.

 

[JMISBEST]

I would say if he's marrying her off to the son of a vassal, it would be to insure the loyalty of the Barony going forward.
Also, the last paragraph reads wrong. It implies the 15 year old Senior Baron is actually the girl's father...

Does it?, sorry.

How do you think people would react to A Senior Baron having A Common Born Half Sister?

 

[JMISBEST]

Being only 15, people tend to be more compassionate than full adults that look to be more practical and learned to not deal with family.

One could also say that he cares for his sister and was in the position to do something.

He's only 15 at the moment but at the time his half sister was born he'd have only been 13 years, 10 and a half months. Sorry for forgetting to mention that in the original post

 

[Cobalt Meridian]

How do you think people would react to A Senior Baron having A Common Born Half Sister?

I don't think it would make any difference to the common people. They might actually see it as a positive thing.
To the landed gentry they wouldn't think the situation to be particularly unusual - they probably all have illegitimate children by various servants and local tavern wenches, meaning that their children have common-born half-siblings - but would raise an eyebrow about the Baron acknowledging it. It's best for the nobility for lines of inheritance to be kept "simple" and half-siblings are an annoyance that tend to be disposed of.

However, as I understand it, the Baron's father was common-born so perhaps this particular society is more accepting to these situations. It definitely seems OK with a title passing to a woman (the Baron's mother) which would be considered very "progressive" in many societies.
In short, run it how you see fit. If the people are upset then there's reasons why they'd be. If they're accepting well you've already set a precedence for why that might be the case.

 

[Inukai]

In case your wondering how the 17 month old girl could be the half Sister of A 15 year old Senior Baron yet not be of noble birth its because the previous title holder was the 15 year old Senior Barons mother, his father was a commoner, the fathers the mutual parent and years after the 15 year old Senior Barons mother died the 15 year old Senior Baron had a brief relationship with another commoner and the now 15 year old Senior Barons now 17 month old common born half Sister was the result

Does it?, sorry.

How do you think people would react to A Senior Baron having A Common Born Half Sister?

I think they would react the same way to having a Senior Baron with a commoner father. That same father would also be given noble title (at least on paper) as the husband of the Senior Baron's mother, so an argument could be made that the half-sister is also of half-noble birth.

 

[JMISBEST]

I think they would react the same way to having a Senior Baron with a commoner father. That same father would also be given noble title (at least on paper) as the husband of the Senior Baron's mother, so an argument could be made that the half-sister is also of half-noble birth.

That may be true but their are other possibility, 1 is that the Senior Barons popularity is high enough that the other members of the countries noble class don't mind him acknowledging that he has a common born father but at the same time its low enough that they will mind him acknowledging that he has a common born half sister

 

[GuyBoy]

William the Conqueror was born illegitimate from a relationship between his father, Robert, Duke of Normandy, with Herleva, daughter of a tanner in Falaise.
Tanner was a particularly low status job, due to the smell of the process.
Herleva must have been quite a woman, as she went on to marry the Norman lord Herluin de Conteville, and have two further children by him, both of whom went on to be pretty significant players in both England and Normandy, as William's half-brothers.
One was Robert of Mortain, one of the most powerful barons after 1066, and the other was Odo, Bishop of Bayeux who commissioned the famous tapestry.

So your dream is not too unbelievable.

 

[rogueattorney]

Yesterday I had yet another Dnd Dream and I have a question about it

A 15 year old Senior Baron had A 17 month old half Sister that despite being his half sister wasn't of noble birth, meaning he didn't have to provide for her and if he wanted to he could have had her placed in a orphanage before she was even 3 hours old

Despite that he took her in, ensured she was well fed, well clothed, well treated, loved, pampered and well treated and made plans for her adult life by arranging for her to 1 day marry the son of the minor Baron that's his vassal, but why would he do that?

In case your wondering how the 17 month old girl could be the half Sister of A 15 year old Senior Baron yet not be of noble birth its because the previous title holder was the 15 year old Senior Barons mother, his father was a commoner, the fathers the mutual parent and years after the 15 year old Senior Barons mother died the 15 year old Senior Baron had a brief relationship with another commoner and the now 15 year old Senior Barons now 17 month old common born half Sister was the result

1. The Baron’s father could still be a big influence in the Baron’s life and has encouraged the Baron to look out for his sister. This could be positive - the father is a good influence who gives good advice and the Baron is doing it out of love. Or it could be negative - the father is a ne’er do well who maybe has some negative information on the Baron’s mother and is blackmailing him.

2. The Baron could be doing it out of some sense of familial honor. “I will not be shamed by having a commoner sister” or “Let it not be said that mine own sister lives in squalor!” Or possibly familial obligation - he’s doing it just because that’s what you do for your sibling. Maybe there’s prior precedence in the Barony’s history.

3. The Baron has a religious mentor who is trying to teach the Baron compassion for the commoner and is starting with the Baron’s own sister.

 

[haakon1]

In case your wondering how the 17 month old girl could be the half Sister of A 15 year old Senior Baron yet not be of noble birth its because the previous title holder was the 15 year old Senior Barons mother, his father was a commoner, the fathers the mutual parent and years after the 15 year old Senior Barons mother died the 15 year old Senior Baron had a brief relationship with another commoner and the now 15 year old Senior Barons now 17 month old common born half Sister was the result

The part I quoted confuses me, so I’ll skip it.

Otherwise:

• the 15 year old is a good kid
• like most people, for biological or cultural reasons, he feels supportive of his blood.
• he wants to appear to be a good person
• ancient prophecy or whatever you want as DM

It actually could make this NPC interesting. He could hire PC’s to do something for his sister.

Thanks for posting!

 

[Edgar Ironpelt]

Yesterday I had yet another Dnd Dream and I have a question about it

A 15 year old Senior Baron had A 17 month old half Sister that despite being his half sister wasn't of noble birth, meaning he didn't have to provide for her and if he wanted to he could have had her placed in a orphanage before she was even 3 hours old

Despite that he took her in, ensured she was well fed, well clothed, well treated, loved, pampered and well treated and made plans for her adult life by arranging for her to 1 day marry the son of the minor Baron that's his vassal, but why would he do that?

From a "humanity" point of view, even an illegitimate half-sibling can still be Family.

From an "aristocratic politics" point of view, even an illegitimate half-sibling - especially a half-sister - still has some value as a marriage-and-alliance token.

This sort of thing happened often enough in Real Life History(tm) that you don't have to contort yourself reaching for an explanation as for why it happened in this case in D&D Land.

Now you could have it turn out otherwise, with the half-sister living and dying in obscurity, or with her becoming an evil Bastard bastard who causes big trouble. But you don't have to.

 

[JMISBEST]

From a "humanity" point of view, even an illegitimate half-sibling can still be Family.

From an "aristocratic politics" point of view, even an illegitimate half-sibling - especially a half-sister - still has some value as a marriage-and-alliance token.

This sort of thing happened often enough in Real Life History(tm) that you don't have to contort yourself reaching for an explanation as for why it happened in this case in D&D Land.

Now you could have it turn out otherwise, with the half-sister living and dying in obscurity, or with her becoming an evil Bastard bastard who causes big trouble. But you don't have to.

Can you explain how and why a illegitimate half sister is better then a illegitimate half brother?, if its common knowledge I apologise

 

[JMISBEST]

Can people tell me what they think about the fact that its possible that the reason that people don't object to the Senior Baron acknowledging that his fathers a commoner but do object to him acknowledging that his half sisters a commoner is that his popularity is high enough that he can get away with acknowledging that his fathers a commoner but at the same time its low enough that he can't get away with acknowledging that his half sisters a commoner

 

[Cobalt Meridian]

Can you explain how and why a illegitimate half sister is better then a illegitimate half brother?, if its common knowledge I apologise

I think it's because, in many medieval societies, the females had no choice over who they married - that decision was made by the most senior male in the family. If that was the case here, the Baron could decide to marry off his half-sister for political or financial benefit. Acknowledging a half-sister would give the Baron a suitable "pawn" to use to increase their own influence.

However, if we're talking about a fictional setting that you're creating for role-playing purposes then the choice of how the society operates in your game is purely your decision. If you think half-sisters are equal to half-brothers then that's perfectly acceptable as well.

 

[Edgar Ironpelt]

Can you explain how and why a illegitimate half sister is better then a illegitimate half brother?, if its common knowledge I apologise.

Brides traditionally join their husband's family while still retaining a link to their old family. That makes a half sister's illegitimacy in her old family less important when she marries into her new one.

Of course, as Cobalt Meridian pointed out above, you can have a different, fictional social structure where this doesn't happen.

 

[aco175]

Can people tell me what they think about the fact that its possible that the reason that people don't object to the Senior Baron acknowledging that his fathers a commoner but do object to him acknowledging that his half sisters a commoner is that his popularity is high enough that he can get away with acknowledging that his fathers a commoner but at the same time its low enough that he can't get away with acknowledging that his half sisters a commoner

Nobody questioned The Black Prince when he said the historians found that William was indeed from an old line of nobles and therefore could be a knight.

 

[JMISBEST]

I think it's because, in many medieval societies, the females had no choice over who they married - that decision was made by the most senior male in the family. If that was the case here, the Baron could decide to marry off his half-sister for political or financial benefit. Acknowledging a half-sister would give the Baron a suitable "pawn" to use to increase their own influence.

However, if we're talking about a fictional setting that you're creating for role-playing purposes then the choice of how the society operates in your game is purely your decision. If you think half-sisters are equal to half-brothers then that's perfectly acceptable as well.

Ooops I forgot to mention that the dream specifically stated that he's not marring his half sister to the son of his vassal for political or financial benefit, but he will use the political and financial benefits that he gains from the marriage, rather he's doing it to ensure that even once she becomes a adult she's have a very good life

In case your wondering why The Senior Baron would arrange a marriage that would guarantee that his half sister has a very good life rather then using the power, wealth, influence and reputation he has to guarantee she has a very good life I have to admit that the dream didn't say why he didn't use the power, wealth, influence and reputation he has to guarantee she has a very good life

 

[JMISBEST]

I've had a thought. What do people think

Why didn't The Senior Baron have his steward adopt his half sister into his/The Senior Barons, family?, after all if he did then his half-sister would be both the illegitimate half sister of A Senior Baron and A Noble by adoption

This would mean that the girl would 1 day be a lot more then what will she now end up being, which is both the illegitimate half sister of A Senior Baron and A Commoner

In case your wondering if The Senior Baron did have his steward adopt his half sister into his/The Senior Barons, family?, then the girls social class would have gone by by 4 levels

To those that are curious those 4 increase's in her social class would have been upper lower class to lower middle class then from lower middle class to middle middle class then from middle middle class to upper middle class then from upper middle class to lower upper class