A 3-year-old at Casino Royale!?

[delericho]

But *I'm* the one who gets to decide that. Not my neighbors and not societal norms.

Now, just why is that? Why does every restaurant and every movie theatre (or even every screen within the multiplex) have to be open to kids? Why can't those of us who don't want to risk having our evenings ruined by those parents who won't or can't control their kids have that choice?

See, I'm quite sure your kids aren't a problem. But you surely must concede that there are kids who are a problem, and there are parents who will let the enjoyment of others be ruined by their kids. Now, since kids are (often) predisposed to such behaviours, and since it's impossible to tell the 'good' kids from the 'bad' kids, why should there not be areas set aside that are simply barred to children?

 

[Umbran]

What it was was, largely, very structured, with most people understanding the concept of the greater good.

Yes, they understood a "greater good" that was pretty harmful to women, minorities, and the young. There's reasons why early rock and roll has a whole lot of songs about abusive boyfriends, how coold the bad boys are, and suicide by automobile...

Just sayin', that's a bit of an odd definition of "good". Sounds a whole lot more LN to me. And that's assuming that the Lawful part applies to the real people, as opposed to the media representation of the middle and upper class, who were probably not the majority.

 

[Simplicity]

Double post.

 

[Simplicity]

Now, just why is that? Why does every restaurant and every movie theatre (or even every screen within the multiplex) have to be open to kids? Why can't those of us who don't want to risk having our evenings ruined by those parents who won't or can't control their kids have that choice?

See, I'm quite sure your kids aren't a problem. But you surely must concede that there are kids who are a problem, and there are parents who will let the enjoyment of others be ruined by their kids. Now, since kids are (often) predisposed to such behaviours, and since it's impossible to tell the 'good' kids from the 'bad' kids, why should there not be areas set aside that are simply barred to children?

Because everyone was once a child, and children are people who deserve respect even if they can't always act like adults. As with any person, part of respecting them means that their mere presence is not a disturbance of the peace.

I conceed that there are problem kids. I also conceed that there are problem people. Problem kids probably outnumber the problem people. But kids are kids.

Some restaurants do bar children from entering. Or at least they say they're going to get you a seat... but then they mysteriously don't. And you sit for a hour waiting for a table, and they never talk to you again.

Why not bar cell phone users from restaurants? Why not bar the ugly from bars?

 

[delericho]

Because everyone was once a child, and children are people who deserve respect even if they can't always act like adults.

That doesn't grant them a free pass to any establishment their parents choose, any more than I have a right to demand entrance to a women-only gym.

But kids are kids.

I believe that that's the crux of my point. Because kids are kids, they cannot be relied on to not cause a disturbance. True, adults can't either, but the numbers are such that the vast majority of adults won't cause a disturbance, and a sizeable minority (if not an outright majority) of kids will if expected to sit through a film that's too adult for them for two hours.

And, in the right circumstances, it just takes on disturbance at the wrong time to ruin the whole. The example was given earlier of a man who was trying to propose to his girlfriend when a kid ruined the mood. Similarly, an outburst at just the wrong point in a film can destroy it for everyone, even if it is the only incident in the whole evening, and even if it is silenced almost immediately.

I see no good reason why cinemas cannot designate some showings as adult-only, and let the customer decide. But, the moment they do that, they have a barrage of complaints against them from parents determined to boycott all showings because their little angels are barred from some showings.

Why not bar cell phone users from restaurants?

Actually, I support the use of cell phone blockers in cinemas wholeheartedly. I'm torn on their use in restaurants, where the noise is less disruptive. However, I have no problem with their use, if the restaurant has a sign saying as much in a visible place. I might even favour such an establishment over one without.

Why not bar the ugly from bars?

Ugly people are routinely barred from nightclubs. The poor are routinely barred from many places, by virtue of the prices involved if in no other more overt way.

 

[Simplicity]

Actually, I don't think women-only gyms are a good idea... But whatever. The management can make clear who they intend to serve and who they don't. If theaters choose not to take the money of parents/children... That's their decision. But it seems their decision was already made.

If one disturbance ruins a movie or meal for you... that sounds like a personal problem. It's unusual to sit through a movie without hearing something from the audience. I feel a little sad for the marriage proposal ruining. But, then again... it sounds like an great time to reconsider the consequences of marriage.

 

[Simplicity]

Ugly people are routinely barred from nightclubs. The poor are routinely barred from many places, by virtue of the prices involved if in no other more overt way.

So they are, but is it right?

 

[Pbartender]

Because everyone was once a child, and children are people who deserve respect even if they can't always act like adults. As with any person, part of respecting them means that their mere presence is not a disturbance of the peace.

Right... But at the same time, a child, like any other person, has to earn the respect that they deserve. And it is the parent's responsibility to teach their children how to act in public so that their mere prescence is not a disturbance of the peace, and thereby earn the respect of those around them. (EDIT: Actually, I think that's what you just said... )

After all, how can a child learn to handle particular social situations without teaching them through example and experience?

Anyway, I think you'll agree, Simplicity, that while children are children and should be given considerable leeway in regards to public behavior, you've still got to draw the line somewhere.

 

[Simplicity]

After all, how can a child learn to handle particular social situations without teaching them through example and experience?

Anyway, I think you'll agree, Simplicity, that while children are children and should be given considerable leeway in regards to public behavior, you've still got to draw the line somewhere.

That is exactly what I'm trying to say. I'm not saying you should let the kids run up to you, pull your hair, and kick you in the shins. Just cut them a break, and don't glare at the parents for bringing them in the first place.

 

[delericho]

If one disturbance ruins a movie or meal for you... that sounds like a personal problem.

It's not that it would destroy the film. But time it right, and it could. Imagine the effect of walking into a screening of "Empire Strikes Back" in 1980 and shouting "Vader is Luke's father!"