A 3-year-old at Casino Royale!?

[Jesus_marley]

I was *waiting* for the restaurant example to come up, as that is yet another place children are apparently not welcome in the "societal norm". I have no sympathy whatsoever for people who whine about children in restaurants. Sorry.

WADR, you are incorrect. Children who can behave themselves are more than welcome. I, and I am sure, many others, would not care if there was a child in an expensive restaurant as long as that child was able to behave properly.

Like it or not, different arenas have different standards for behaviour. A rambunctious child in a McDonald's restaurant is to be expected. and frankly I would look like a fool if I were to complain about it. However, place that same child in a 5 star restaurant and I would probably kill it and eat it.... and I would be applauded for the act. The same goes for adults as well.

The fact of it is plain and very easy to see... if you or your child cannot behave in a manner that is not disruptive to the other people in the gathering, then you or your child have no business being there in the first place.

 

[Pbartender]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=i30c4WHuaIg

My wife and I have, in the past, taken our children to movies that push the limmit of what's appropriate for them. We've done this because, as Simplicity said above, there's a lot of movies that are crap and we'd rather have them see movies that are actually worth watching.

Now, that said, we've been fairly sensitive to how our kids act in public. When we take our kids out to a store, or a restaurant, or a show, we expect them to behave themselves... And simply because of that expectation they did and still do, for the most part. Of course, they are kids, and get antsy sometimes. That's to be expected. But we've never just stood by and let them unceasingly cry or scream or complain or run about. I don't let my children act like like at home, and there's no reason for them to act like that in public. I can't stand it when other people let their kids do that, I'd be a hypocrite if I allowed mine to.

In fact, in the last year or so, I've caught my kids complaining about other people's kids when we go to the theater... "Dad, that boy's too loud. I can't hear the movie."

At any rate... My wife and I are going to see Casino Royale tonight. Our 7 and 8 year old kids will not be coming along. Instead, we are double-dating with another couple, that we recently became friends with, who have a teenaged daughter who will be babysitting them. It's the first time in several years that my wife and I have gone on a "date" without the kids, and the first time in several years that my wife and I have seen what we term "a not kid friendly" movie in the theater.

 

[DonTadow]

Hey, I think the Beatles are great. And I also think that most hip-hop lately is pretty terrible. But there's plenty of diamonds in the rough that redeem the genre. Look in the right places, and you'll find political commentary far more cutting than the Beatles ever were. Just because no one remembers the crappy Elton John and Jackson 5 rock songs doesn't make it a superior form of music.

You can bring out those studies if you like. They are not that solid for a variety of reasons. The crime rate in the U.S. is currently at an all-time low (though it has very recently started to climb again). Funny how that happens in a society where everyone has become hyperviolent.

Also, many of the studies measure the effect of violent videogames by looking at "violent behavior" as defined by the studier... punching dolls... hitting buttons harder... but strangely they tend not to have children getting into fist fights. Usually researches aren't going to get parents to allow that.

Finally, most of the "scientists" in charge of these studies don't seem to understand the difference between correlation and causality. No one should argue that violent videogames and violent people share a correlation. Violent people seek out violent videogames. But the videogames don't necessarily cause violence, and in fact, by occupying the time of violent people can usually be shown to decrease levels of actual violence in society.

There are better references, but off the top of my head:
http://www.videogamevoters.org/gamesnotviolence/

As for class differences... That gets into politics. There's bigger problems there than the entertainment industry. But off-limits for this forum, I think.

I'll be honest, screw the studies. I do like that they back up my claim but I can ride around my old neighborhood, look at my schools and watch the degratiion of my culture. Sure upper class families and societies are usually unscathed by the influence, but the lower theclass level the more influential the media that the child is exposed too. that's why i get so irk when I read or see this kind of stuff, because I get to witness its results first hand. If you surround someone with violence, they are going to think violence is the norm.

For some reason parents just don't realize that there are some places children should not be. Thats why we put the little rs and ms on things. They hide behind this superiority that its not going ot happen to "their child".

 

[Kahuna Burger]

Our society is sliding into chaotic selfish. People have all these entiltlement issues they feel as if they and their demonseeds can behave anyway they want to and they get upset if anyone confronts them on their or their offsprings unacceptable behavior.

In my expereince these people are matched if not exceeded in number by selfish people with entitlement issues who feel as if the very existance of a child being, you know, awake in their area and actually making some sounds is an infringement on their rights. :\ People keep saying parents can wait and rent the DVD. Hey, people who want to watch a movie all by themselves can do that too. I would say that the responisibility of parents to keep their kids from making noise is exactly the same as the responsibility of a person with a bad cold to either skip the movie or dose up enough not to hack on the back of my head all through the film - and my responsibility to accept that I'm going out in public and the public has just as much of a right to be there as I do.

 

[Umbran]

You, sir, are full of . Sorry.

If you have to apologize for it, you probably should never have said it.

Similarly, if we see the smilies, we know you intended something bad, and that's not a good sign.

The irony of seeing this in a discussion that largely hinges on when and how folks should be polite to each other is pretty darned thick, but it isn't amusing.

So, to everyone in the thread, one and only one warning - be respectful of your fellow posters.

 

[Simplicity]

When in the last 37 years has this society been Lawful Good?

Well, what about the 80's? No one did any drugs, and cocaine use was especially low. Racial inequality was completely eliminated. There were black doctors and lawyers everywhere, and all the black children got adopted into rich white families. Whenever a knife fight broke out because someone didn't beat it, people broke out into song.

Breaking out into song is an important part of the Lawful Good alignment, I think.

 

[DonTadow]

In my expereince these people are matched if not exceeded in number by selfish people with entitlement issues who feel as if the very existance of a child being, you know, awake in their area and actually making some sounds is an infringement on their rights. :\ People keep saying parents can wait and rent the DVD. Hey, people who want to watch a movie all by themselves can do that too. I would say that the responisibility of parents to keep their kids from making noise is exactly the same as the responsibility of a person with a bad cold to either skip the movie or dose up enough not to hack on the back of my head all through the film - and my responsibility to accept that I'm going out in public and the public has just as much of a right to be there as I do.

All Im saying is be mindful and get a babysitter. If you can't afford a babysitter you probably shouldnt be shelling out 20 bucks to see a movie. Most movie theaters have a policy against kids after a certain hour anyway,, From now on I plan on going to these.

But like someone said this goes beyond movies. Its a society that don't have respect for their own children let alone thy neighbor.

 

[Simplicity]

Probably not in that timeframe. If you went back to the 50s, you could certainly argue that mainstream American society was LG.

The 50s was not all beer and Skittles.

US Homicide rate 1950: 4.6 per 100,000
US Homicide rate 2000: 5.5 per 100,000

The 50's also included quite a bit of organized crime (the Teamsters, for example) and lynchings (the Klu Klux Klan, for example).

 

[Simplicity]

I'll be honest, screw the studies. I do like that they back up my claim but I can ride around my old neighborhood, look at my schools and watch the degratiion of my culture. Sure upper class families and societies are usually unscathed by the influence, but the lower theclass level the more influential the media that the child is exposed too. that's why i get so irk when I read or see this kind of stuff, because I get to witness its results first hand. If you surround someone with violence, they are going to think violence is the norm.

Again, I think if you're looking to media for the explanation of why the lower class is doing poorly, you're looking in the wrong place.

Can I present one of a myriad of alternative hypotheses? All families have become 2 income families now, and while the wealthier can afford daycare, those with less money cannot. In addition, where there was once a gap between the rich and the poor, people are tending to marry within their own financial level more these days. So, that gap has increased.
A larger poor immigrant population is also placing a burden on our schools, which are very badly underfunded because no one ever is willing to pay more taxes to support schools.

In no way does any of this have anything to do with children attending R-rated movies.

 

[Simplicity]

All Im saying is be mindful and get a babysitter...

But like someone said this goes beyond movies. Its a society that don't have respect for their own children let alone thy neighbor.

And all I'm saying is that my child is not a "demonseed", he's a person with impulse issues.
If I choose to take my family to a fancy restaurant, I have a right to take my whole family.
I have a right to take my child to an environment that tests his limits, where I can teach him to be well-behaved. Yes, he's going to throw a spoon on the floor. If you have a problem with that, too bad.

Leaving your child at home with the babysitter is not a sign of respect towards the child. I'm not saying you don't do it anyways, because there are some situations a kid is just not going to be able to handle. But you should not be required to do it anytime you go out someplace that is not family-oriented. Children deserve to be included in society's activities, where they can reasonably participate.