A 3-year-old at Casino Royale!?

[kenobi65]

If you have to apologize for it, you probably should never have said it.

Honestly, I put the "sorry" in there in response to this:

I have no sympathy whatsoever for people who whine about children in restaurants. Sorry.

And, I knew that the censor would bleep out what I wrote anyway.

Still, point taken.

 

[DonTadow]

Again, I think if you're looking to media for the explanation of why the lower class is doing poorly, you're looking in the wrong place.

Can I present one of a myriad of alternative hypotheses? All families have become 2 income families now, and while the wealthier can afford daycare, those with less money cannot. In addition, where there was once a gap between the rich and the poor, people are tending to marry within their own financial level more these days. So, that gap has increased.
A larger poor immigrant population is also placing a burden on our schools, which are very badly underfunded because no one ever is willing to pay more taxes to support schools.

In no way does any of this have anything to do with children attending R-rated movies.

No not an explanation, but the violent surroundings certainly adds to it. and whereas you have hypothesis i have witnesses it with my own eyes. I don't contradict everything you've said, and certainly they add to the blight, but I"m speaking of things that are I've seen.

nd all I'm saying is that my child is not a "demonseed", he's a person with impulse issues.
If I choose to take my family to a fancy restaurant, I have a right to take my whole family.
I have a right to take my child to an environment that tests his limits, where I can teach him to be well-behaved. Yes, he's going to throw a spoon on the floor. If you have a problem with that, too bad.

Leaving your child at home with the babysitter is not a sign of respect towards the child. I'm not saying you don't do it anyways, because there are some situations a kid is just not going to be able to handle. But you should not be required to do it anytime you go out someplace that is not family-oriented. Children deserve to be included in society's activities, where they can reasonably participate.

You know if you have a bad kid or not. I'm not a fan of these scientific terms for children, they either need correcting or they don't. But if you think that your family should all be together when you go out, why not take them to family oriented places and movies? Or at the very least at a reasonable time.

 

[kenobi65]

Yes, he's going to throw a spoon on the floor. If you have a problem with that, too bad.

If you discipline him when he misbehaves, and if you remove him from the situation entirely when it's clear that normal discipline isn't cutting it, then I, generally, don't have an issue.

As myself and others have argued, there are people (whom you believe are mythical) who just don't do that.

you should not be required to do it anytime you go out someplace that is not family-oriented. Children deserve to be included in society's activities, where they can reasonably participate.

OTOH, there's also something to be said for letting kids be kids, and not trying to prematurely make them into miniature adults. Kids grow up way too quickly today as it is.

When I was a kid, did we occasionally go to fancy restaurants? Yes, occasionally, for special occasions. Was it the norm? No. If we hadn't behaved when we did so, would we have gone again? Heck, no.

 

[kenobi65]

The 50s was not all beer and Skittles.

Didn't, for a moment, say or mean to imply that it was. LG =/= utopian.

What it was was, largely, very structured, with most people understanding the concept of the greater good.

OTOH, if you were someone who didn't fit into the extremely rigid societal norms of that time (blacks, Communists, rock-and-rollers, to name a few), you would have had a very difficult time of it.

Is it a good thing that our society is more diverse today and (generally) more accepting of that diversity? I think so. The converse of that, however, is that some people have lost that sense of the greater good, and are incredibly self-focused.

 

[Simplicity]

Honestly, I put the "sorry" in there in response to this:



And, I knew that the censor would bleep out what I wrote anyway.

Still, point taken.

I certainly wasn't offended or anything. Spiced banter goodness.
We can agree to disagree.

 

[Simplicity]

If you discipline him when he misbehaves, and if you remove him from the situation entirely when it's clear that normal discipline isn't cutting it, then I, generally, don't have an issue.

As myself and others have argued, there are people (whom you believe are mythical) who just don't do that.

That's fine, and I agree with it. But half of my responses here are in response to those who just believe children don't belong at some restaurants/movies at all. That not getting a babysitter is a sign of my entitlement issues and disrespect for my neighbor. And that by providing my child with potato pancakes and/or movies, I'm contributing to the downfall of Western civilization.

Oh. And as for the letting kids be kids... I certainly agree there too. Though it does come into conflict with keeping them under control in "adult" places. Children require a certain amount of tolerance, and it's in the wiggle room there that neighbors get upset and parents do not.

 

[DonTadow]

That's fine, and I agree with it. But half of my responses here are in response to those who just believe children don't belong at some restaurants/movies at all. That not getting a babysitter is a sign of my entitlement issues and disrespect for my neighbor. And that by providing my child with potato pancakes and/or movies, I'm contributing to the downfall of Western civilization.

They don't. If you and the wife are going to the XXX theater or pub are you taking little johnny with you?
There are places meant for adults and those meant for famlilies. There are few places meant for families after 10 p.m..

If you want to go to an upscale restaurant(that doesnt even have a kids menu) or go see an r rated movie, either go in the daytime or get a babysitter. I just think thats apart of being a resposnible parent.

 

[Simplicity]

They don't. If you and the wife are going to the XXX theater or pub are you taking little johnny with you?
There are places meant for adults and those meant for famlilies. There are few places meant for families after 10 p.m..

If you want to go to an upscale restaurant(that doesnt even have a kids menu) or go see an r rated movie, either go in the daytime or get a babysitter. I just think thats apart of being a resposnible parent.

As I said, there are some situations that I wouldn't take my son to because I don't think he's ready for them. But *I'm* the one who gets to decide that. Not my neighbors and not societal norms. Personally, by the time he's 15, I know he's going to have seen plenty more than they will ever show at a XXX theater. There is this thing called the Internet now. I wouldn't take him there because I don't go to XXX theaters, and because there are legal issues involved at that point. I'm certainly more worried about violence in the media than I am about sex in the media (And I've already expressed my views on violence).

As for the pub, they wouldn't allow him in anyways so it's a moot point. Would I take him if he were allowed? Probably not. But then I don't drink that much, and it's no fun to go to a pub if you can't drink because you're watching your kid.

 

[DonTadow]

As I said, there are some situations that I wouldn't take my son to because I don't think he's ready for them. But *I'm* the one who gets to decide that. Not my neighbors and not societal norms. Personally, by the time he's 15, I know he's going to have seen plenty more than they will ever show at a XXX theater. There is this thing called the Internet now. I wouldn't take him there because I don't go to XXX theaters, and because there are legal issues involved at that point. I'm certainly more worried about violence in the media than I am about sex in the media (And I've already expressed my views on violence).

As for the pub, they wouldn't allow him in anyways so it's a moot point. Would I take him if he were allowed? Probably not. But then I don't drink that much, and it's no fun to go to a pub if you can drink because you're watching your kid.

YOu've touched on a couple of things. First I"m talking about young children, and I think the majority of htis forum is talkinga bout young children. By the age of 13 a child should know how to take care of himself. If there weren't laws are you sayiing you'd take an 8 year old to adult movies, theaters and restaurants at all hours of the night.

 

[Simplicity]

YOu've touched on a couple of things. First I"m talking about young children, and I think the majority of htis forum is talkinga bout young children. By the age of 13 a child should know how to take care of himself. If there weren't laws are you sayiing you'd take an 8 year old to adult movies, theaters and restaurants at all hours of the night.

I'm not sure what your issue is with the time of day thing. I have no problem taking an 8-year-old out to a movie or restaurant late at night, other than the fact that it may be disturbing to other theater patrons. And I wouldn't do it on a night when we had school the next day. But late on a friday or saturday night if I knew he was going to behave himself? Sure, I'd do it every now and then. He can sleep in the next day.

Just as I would let an 8-year-old stay up on New Years to celebrate.

I wouldn't take an 8-year-old to an XXX-rated movie. That's just creepy. But then I wouldn't GO to a XXX-rated movie. There's nothing in a XXX-rated movie that I would feel the urge to share with a kid.

There's plenty of stuff in PG-13 and R-rated movies that an 8-year-old can appreciate.