A balanced pantheon?

[randomling]

Looking for a little help with my campaign world - and particularly with my pantheon as it is giving me a bit of trouble!

The campaign world is based on a fantasy setting I've been building since I was 14 and I did a lot of work around the religion. Then I tried to make it work in the D&D system..... didn't seem to jive, with the way the D&D rules work, the ethos of the religion I'd created, and a number of changes I want to make because some of the ideas I had when I was 14 seem really *stupid* now.

The original ethos of the religion - which I want to keep - was balance. The idea was that each force has its counterforce, each weight has a counterweight, and that this is reflected in the gods. Each god has a polar opposite. They're not always of diametrically opposed alignments - sometimes they're even of the same alignment. They're not always god/goddess. But they always have some qualities that oppose each other.

The other effect of the "balance" thing is that the main deities, with whom the religion started, are neutral, the idea being that gods of differing alignments and differing agendas broke off from that.

The thing is that since I've removed some gods, changed others beyond recognition and added some extra ones, the balance thing no longer work. I'm looking for concepts to work with here - preferably in twos - as I need more material and all ideas are good...

I also have some troublesome loner gods who need pairing up with someone! For instance:

Clayah (LE) virgin goddess of the hunt
Fremnor (CG) god of revelry
Almac (LN) god of wizardry
Felmie (LG) goddess of self-discovery, revenge and quests

Anyone help me with ideas?

Thanks in advance!

 

[Mathew_Freeman]

To counterbalance Almac you could have a CN God of Destruction, who promotes barbarity and willful destruction of order. Maybe a very powerful slaad (check the MM) to base him off? Also maybe a little like Talos in the FR. A god of destruction and chaos really opposes a god of magic and law.

Or (heh) maybe another god of sorcery instead of magic, that's CN. Promotes the idea of spells being primal forces that rage, barely controlled, as opposed to the teachings of Almac who says they are carefully constructed creations that take time and effort.

 

[Mark]

Here's a way that I have handled it (free downloadable PDF)-

http://www.creativemountaingames.com/index.asp#lextoecreatmyth

Hope that helps

 

[Xeriar]

Clayah (LE) virgin goddess of the hunt
Shouldn't she be CG or something? The 'Wild and Pure' feeling, anyway.

Fremnor (CG) god of revelry
Should perhaps have a god of patience, or reflection - contemplation.

Almac (LN) god of wizardry
What opposes or complements magic in your world? Nature?

Felmie (LG) goddess of self-discovery, revenge and quests
Although I think this goddess may seem to be a little specific, you should probably have a lord of apathy.

 

[Balgus]

randomite:
these need pairing (paraphrase)
Clayah (LE) virgin goddess of the hunt
Fremnor (CG) god of revelry
Almac (LN) god of wizardry
Felmie (LG) goddess of self-discovery, revenge and quests

Clayah- virgin goddess of hunt- reminds me of Artemis. her twin brother was apollo. you can base something off that. like Claymore- Flambuoyant Warrior. Since she is a hunter- versatile and does not follow a set style- he can be a fighter- disciplined and flashy. While she relies on stealth and silence to hunt, he is loud and cocky- taunting his foes as he fights.

Frenmore- god of revelry- is counterbalance would be a god of silent fortitude. A god that advocates quiet seclusion and meditation. a monk would be perfect.

Almac- rival would be a chaotic thing who revels in destruction and barbarism. Boooks and learning is not his thing. he only knows one law- raw power. Naked force and sheer domination is his order.

Felmie - god of quests and self discovery- partner would be a person who wishes everything to be given to them. A god of domination- and forces people to work and quest for them. A cleric of strength and tyranny. A person who defines himself through his possessions. the more he ammasses- the happier he is.

 

[Mr Fidgit]

first off, i would change Felmie's areas of influence to self-discovery, quests and justice. you could add a diety or aspect to cover revenge separately (IMO, revenge is a dish best served...er...um...evil )

They're not always of diametrically opposed alignments - sometimes they're even of the same alignment. They're not always god/goddess. But they always have some qualities that oppose each other.

you could easily do this with gods of neutral alignments. since worshipers can be one alignment step away, a LN god could have sects of worshipers who are LG and LE, each with different views on the religon, wants of their god and practice (even taking passages from holy scriptures to mean different things, or implementing the wishes of their god in opposing ways)

this works with CN also (CG and CE), and a true neutral god could have as many as eight different sects (and very confused worshipers )

 

[Kilmore]

Balance isn't just a matter of numbers. A trio of powerful good gods, a horde of weaker evil ones, and a crafty neutral god can strike a good balance.

Also, having the pantheon balanced may seem tidy, but it really isn't all that necessary. In fact, having it skewed one way or the other may introduce some interesting campaign possibilities.

In my campaign, just like in most societies, there are no evil "gods" worshipped by the general populace, nor are temples of evil powers tolerated. Not all of the "good" gods are entirely good, and they can get quite nasty when angry or simply unhappy, but they generally do more good than bad.

The forces of evil are represented by "demon lords" and their servants who are only invoked by the desperate, angry, or insane (which admittedly, there are a lot of in my world). However, the demons' influence is powerful and even the gods themselves are not free from corruption. So while there might not be a temple of Arucabel (the main demon lord) down the street, the temple of Leathane (the goddess of love) may be unwittingly doing his work.

Just my two copper.

 

[randomling]

Few replies to what's been said so far:

Tallarn - I was thinking of a god of sorcery to oppose Almac as I already have a god of destruction and chaos. In fact there's two - destruction as opposed to creation (these are my two most central deities, CN and N respectively) - and destruction, slaughter and fury (CE) as opposed to righteous battle (LG). You have a character that worships the righteous battle god - that's Celadon!

Mark - thanks for the site!

Xeriar
Clayah (LE) virgin goddess of the hunt
Shouldn't she be CG or something? The 'Wild and Pure' feeling, anyway.

Noooo!!! I have (kinda) a 'Wild and Pure' type but she's not Clayah. Clayah is cool, calculating, insidious, largely unseen and completely evil. In fact, perhaps the 'Wild and Pure' type could be Clayah's polar opposite! That could work really well. Thanks!

I already have a (different) deity of magic (and prophecy) who is opposed by nature. And I like the lord of apathy. Interesting!

Balgus - cool ideas! I think I may incorporate some of your Apollo-like ideas, and between you and Xeriar I'm getting a great picture of what Fremnor's opposite might be like! And I have a deity like the opposite for Felmie you described: my god of commerce, trade, and wealth. They could make two sides of an interesting coin - fulfil yourself through personal possessions, or through questing and testing yourself?

Mr Fidgit - you may be right about the revenge thing. I could incorporate that into an existing deity or two. And the idea of factions of many different alignments rocks. In fact, I've been thinking of relaxing the "one step" rule, as I can definitely think of cults of Lawful Good gods whose practises border on Lawful Evil...

Thanks, everyone! I'll post a list of current gods, their pairings and alignments in a few minutes... see what you think?

 

[randomling]

Balance isn't just a matter of numbers. A trio of powerful good gods, a horde of weaker evil ones, and a crafty neutral god can strike a good balance.

Also, having the pantheon balanced may seem tidy, but it really isn't all that necessary. In fact, having it skewed one way or the other may introduce some interesting campaign possibilities.

In my campaign, just like in most societies, there are no evil "gods" worshipped by the general populace, nor are temples of evil powers tolerated. Not all of the "good" gods are entirely good, and they can get quite nasty when angry or simply unhappy, but they generally do more good than bad.

The forces of evil are represented by "demon lords" and their servants who are only invoked by the desperate, angry, or insane (which admittedly, there are a lot of in my world). However, the demons' influence is powerful and even the gods themselves are not free from corruption. So while there might not be a temple of Arucabel (the main demon lord) down the street, the temple of Leathane (the goddess of love) may be unwittingly doing his work.

Just my two copper.

My original idea - back aged 14 - was "there are no forces of evil, only different perspectives", but that doesn't seem to work too well within the D&D system. And I discovered I like the new dimension that the alignment system gives my pantheon.

Sure, in my world the evil gods won't be worshipped in public. Evil temples are usually secret, apart from in the most depraved places, because followers of the evil gods are usually lynched. But at the same time, followers of good gods may unwittingly - or even wittingly - doing evil work. So, it's not black and white.

I like your ideas though. Demon lords could have some mileage... lieutenants of the occasional evil god, perhaps?

 

[Kilmore]

"Demon lords could have some mileage... lieutenants of the occasional evil god, perhaps?"

Whatever works. To be honest, I don't see any differences between the "gods" and the "demon lords" in my campaign aside from philosophy and the method of worship.