D&D 5E A Board Game style Release Schedule

[darjr]

I think it is important to remember that PF was designed explicitly to allow you to continue to use your 3.5 material (including Paizo's own pre-Pathfinder APs). This is more similar to the 1E to 2E transition. 5E is not designed in that way. The better comparison would be to compare the rollout and schedule of 3E or 4E and 5E because none of those were designed to be backwards compatible with previous material.

Actually I think 5e was explicitly designed to be more comparable with older editions. Specifically with the styles of play that older editions seem to support. But this was also a nod to support older edition material by supporting older edition play styles.

 

[BryonD]

DRINK. THE. PEPSI. FRIEND.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LoF_a0-7xVQ&t=105

 

[Flexor the Mighty!]

Which of course raises the question of what WotC's goals are for D&D. That's what this whole debate is really about, since of course if they were trying to maximize revenue from RPG book sales they would in fact be following the Universe B model, while in the real world they are not.

Looking at what WotC's actions have been to date, I believe they have no intention of releasing a sixth edition. Ever. 5E is intended to be an evergreen game with a board game like release schedule, where in 2035 you'll still be able to walk into a store and pick up a 5E Player's Handbook. The game now solely exists to keep the brand from being explained as "this thing with dice people used to play" when discussing cross-platform stuff like movies or games with friends. If more casual players get picked up and turned into devoted fans of the brand, awesome - but they're valued as evangelists for the moneymaking parts of the brand, not a source of hardbook purchasers.

I like 5E a lot. I like the core books, and I also like the material they've put out in the recent Elemental Evil Player's Companion. If we get something like that every six months and see the monthly Unearthed Arcana articles get some playtesting revisions, that's all I'll need to keep playing the game indefinitely.

If you need more material than that to keep you invested with the ruleset, that's unfortunate, but none of us are WotC's target demographic anymore, myself included. You've purchased the product WotC has put out for sale (the core books) and if you're not interested in big adventure paths (which I for one am not), they're under no obligation to put out any further support whatsoever. The game is now complete - no one needs anything else to run it past this point, so anything we receive moving forward whatsoever is gravy.

Yep, people who want splats every few months may have to accept they are not who WotC is designing 5e for. Me I'm fine with just three three books. I'd be happy with some more adventure support but its not a deal breaker. Time will tell how things play out and if its a good strategy or bad.

 

[Cristian Andreu]

Although my collector/compulsive buyer side is going bananas for more books, my rational side is perfectly happy with the game so far. I can see myself playing with what's available + my own homebrews for several years.

 

[Mistwell]

So you're ignoring the link I provided to one of your posts where you use conversion and then say I ignore your posts? More irony.

Oh my this is getting ridiculous. IT'S THE SAME POST WE'RE TALKING ABOUT.

Go click on your link. No, stop arguing, just go click on it. Now read it. No, don't skip to where you want to skip to, READ THE WHOLE POST.

What I quoted you (which you apparently yet again refused to read) IS THAT POST.

I think we're done here. This looks like willful misrepresentation from you at this point. You let me know when you're willing to go read your own link (fully).

 

[Mistwell]

Mistwell why do you think 5E has bveen out 3 months?

Because the third and last of the Core rulebooks came out three months ago to the day (well, to the day when I said that).

Using that logic 1E came out in 1979 not 1977.

That is correct. The game wasn't out until the core books were all out. Before that, it was only part of the game.

If I sell you a car with no engine, and I tell you the engine will be supplied in a month...when do you have a car? I'd say, once I deliver the engine. The Core books have always represented the game itself. Without the DMG, the game wasn't fully out yet.

But, even if you disagree with my view of it, you can understand where I am coming from, right?

 

[Zardnaar]

Because the third and last of the Core rulebooks came out three months ago to the day (well, to the day when I said that).



That is correct. The game wasn't out until the core books were all out. Before that, it was only part of the game.

If I sell you a car with no engine, and I tell you the engine will be supplied in a month...when do you have a car? I'd say, once I deliver the engine. The Core books have always represented the game itself. Without the DMG, the game wasn't fully out yet.

But, even if you disagree with my view of it, you can understand where I am coming from, right?

I understand where you are coming from sure I just think you will be lonely with that opinion. Last year was the 40th anniversary for example but the last )D&D book came out later. 1E is generally assumed to have been released in 1977, 5E came out July or August 2014 depending on if you count the starter set.

 

[Trickster Spirit]

Quite possibly neither.

Heh, my point exactly.

It's a good thing I like 5E so much, I quite like the idea of it being the last-ever D&D edition. Of course, I'm envisioning that to mean "5E content every six months in perpetuity" rather than "mothballing the brand entirely for good", but I'm an optimist, so sue me.

 

[Jester David]

And yet you want others to self-censor because you disagree with them.

Where have I said anything even remotely like that?

Honestly, it is just trying to defend/justify what WotC is doing with the RPG. But rational arguments, whether good or bad, won't change the feelings of people. The two camps on the question of D&D's release schedule are pretty clear and so are their arguments. Until some new info is accessable, nothing much will change in terms of arguments and who makes them. Even a new idea like saying that it feels like the release of a boardgame. It feels more like the release of a place holder to me. We can try to explain our feelings, but ultimately we still won't feel the same thing.

I will rake WotC over the coals for their mistakes. I've called out the lack of an OGL repeatedly and described the current attitude to fan sites as "deplorable".

But I can't get mad at a slow release schedule. Especially when, in the last 9 months, WotC had released 7 RPG products (soon to be 8). And in that same period, almost a dozen official D&D products have been released (counting spellcards and minis each as "one"). Things have in no way been slow, save the last month and change.

Again, this thread started because I was thinking about board games. The Kickstarter for the Ghostbusters game actually. In one update the creators talked about how they didn't want a "one-and-done" product and were holding back Ghostbusters 2 content for a potentially standalone expansion. Which got me thinking about board game expansions and Pathfinder, when I realized I'd have been very happy had Pathfinder effectively stopped. If they had release 2-4 core expansions and then focused on much more optional content. How each successive release was as much a hindrance to me as an expansion. And I remembered how many board games I have that halted expansions when the game reached critical mass. Some games can expand continually (Cards Against Humanity) while others have a finite number of expansions before the added complexity offsets any gains from the new play experience.

 

[Jester David]

That's because Pathfinder's "GameMastery Guide" is not comparable to D&D's DMG. The equivalent of the latter book is already rolled into the Pathfinder Core Rulebook.

Kinda. Most of it is in the Core Rulebook. But one could also argue that it's the equivalent of the DM Basics rules, which were available shortly after the 5e PHB dropped.

I think it is important to remember that PF was designed explicitly to allow you to continue to use your 3.5 material (including Paizo's own pre-Pathfinder APs). This is more similar to the 1E to 2E transition. 5E is not designed in that way. The better comparison would be to compare the rollout and schedule of 3E or 4E and 5E because none of those were designed to be backwards compatible with previous material.

This is true. So let's look at 3e then. (3e chosen because I know 3.5e had a robust schedule that was half reprints, and 4e was equally heavy, but I don't recall much of 3.0 after launch.)

The PHB was released during GenCon/August in the year 2000. The DMG and MM followed some months later.
The first accessory was the Hero Builder's Guidebook in Dec 2000. And there were 96-page softcover accessories for most of the classes shortly thereafter: Sword and Fist (Jan 2001), Defenders of the Faith (May 2001), Tome & Blood (July 2001), Song & Silence (Dec 2001), and Masters of the Wild (Feb 2002). The Psionic Handbook was released in March 2001, Manual of the Planes in Sept 2001, Oriental Adventures Oct 2001, and Enemies & Allies -a 96-page book of NPCs- in Oct 2001.

So, by this period in 2001, 3rd Edition had 4 or so 32-page moules going all the way to level 9 (same pages as Tyranny but half the levels), a fluff book on creating characters, and a splatbook on fighter types that mostly had feats and prestige classes. And psionics. Not a staggering amount more content. (And if the Elemental Evil Player's Guide thingy is more than 64-pages then 5e will be very comparable.)

This quickly changes as 3e churns out the books, but many players (druids, rangers, barbarians) would have to wait another year to see anything. A single 256-page hardcover accessory that expanded all classes would probably have been far more welcome (and contain far less filler).