a can of worms: questions about the hydra.

[krupintupple]

i've searched the boards and have no intention to bring up old gripes or complaints or anything of that sort.

simply put, i'm curious about the hydra. i've noticed that on the SRD, it's 'attack' and 'full attack' option list the same number. does this mean that it gets no added benefit from a full attack? i checked the MM1 and it had the same numbers as well.

the following scares the heck out of me:

A hydra’s Combat Reflexes feat allows it to use all its heads for attacks of opportunity.

as written, does that mean that if you provoke mr hydra, you get dinged by as many AoO's as he has heads, as opposed to the usual 1 ( or 1 + dex, for combat reflexes)?

finally, he has combat reflexes, so does that mean that each head gets 1+dex AoO's for anyone who provokes? i mean, not to complain, but my players aren't going to be thrilled if one of them provokes 8 AoO's from making a single bad tactical choice in melee; it is a frightening 8d10+30 for a CR4 creature assuming all of them hit. am i reading this wrong, or is the hydra the big man on campus to be feared by lower level adventurers?

 

[Runestar]

My reading is that the average hydra gets to make 2 AoOs/round, each of which is made with all its heads (for that many bite attacks).

So the moral of the story is not to have your players do stupid things which provoke them.

 

[blargney the second]

They are indeed quite nasty in melee. I chose to interpret the AoO thing in a different way last time I ran one: each action that provokes an AoO gets attacked by 1+Dex heads. In a given round, it can respond to as many AoOs as it has heads. I realize it's not RAW, but it certainly worked to my satisfaction.

 

[krupintupple]

interesting, that's actually fairly deadly. i should really think about placement and terrain...

now, about that whole "attack, 5 bites; full attack, 5 bites" does that mean they can make a move action to move to someone, and then a standard action to bite five times, or do they still need to use a full round action if they plan on biting more than once?

 

[Drowbane]

interesting, that's actually fairly deadly. i should really think about placement and terrain...

now, about that whole "attack, 5 bites; full attack, 5 bites" does that mean they can make a move action to move to someone, and then a standard action to bite five times, or do they still need to use a full round action if they plan on biting more than once?

Hydra get to move and attack with each head. Only benefit to standing still being a prevention of AoOs.

 

[blargney the second]

It's a standard action to attack with all five heads.

 

[krupintupple]

It's a standard action to attack with all five heads.

wow, so now i've really got to scale back that encounter. even a CR4 hydra becomes quite deadly very fast. although, something tells me that being a large, stupid, land-bound animal is deadly at low levels, it's not so much at level 7+, when the party will most likely regroup and return with spells or abilities that will protect against it, or just have a friendly caster rain down doom upon it while the party rogue tosses alchemical fires against any stumps he sees!

 

[Runestar]

Only if your party is actually dumb enough to want to stand toe-to-toe with it. Then yes, they deserved to get TPK'ed by it.

The 2 times I threw one against my party, 1 failed its will save against the wizard's deep slumber spell, the other got caught in a trip-lock by the barb/fighter.

 

[Keith Robinson]

A hydra’s Combat Reflexes feat allows it to use all its heads for attacks of opportunity

I guess another way to interpret this would be to apply the exact same rules as you would for a PC with combat reflexes.

For example, would you let a PC with a Dex 18 and Combat Reflexes make 5 AoO against a single foe all at once (that is, for provoking just the once)? Or would they get 1 AoO and then further AoO as and when they present themselves in that round?

All that quote might be saying is that a hydra gets to apply the number of heads it has to count for the number of AoO it can make in a round, rather than applying its Dex - but that it still uses them as set out in the Combat Reflexes feat description (ie 1 AoO for each seperate action that provokes).

On the other hand, it might be saying exactly as suggested elsewhere in this thread.

Very vague.

 

[CsonTep]

I've used hydra AOO two ways 1. Two AOO per round with all heads and 2. A number of AOO equal to the number of heads per round, one bite attack per AOO. In the end it didn't make any difference as the players knew to stay as far away from the things as possible.

KDM27