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A few things I really like about WFRP

MNblockhead

A Title Much Cooler Than Anything on the Old Site
The one that I think is the best is Red Moon Roleplaying, they are playing through TEW at a good pace.
Thanks for the recommendation. I've added it to PocketCasts.
Grim and perilous are a bit too talky for me, it takes them forever to get anywhere. But on the occasions they get the pace up it is quite enjoyable. It might also take som time to get used to one of the quite annoying PCs ... :)
I'm not getting into it. I might give it another episode to see if it grows on me, but let's hope Red Moon does the trick.
I also recommend The Oldhammer Fiction Podcast. It is not WFRP, rather it is a person reading the short stories and novels set in the Warhammer setting (both fantasy and 40k), sort of like an audiobook. The reading is followed by reflections on the setting which are very interesting.
Interesting, I'll check it out.
 

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MNblockhead

A Title Much Cooler Than Anything on the Old Site
How is it compared to 5e? I would like to try it, but I'm afraid my players wouldn't like it that much, since they adore the high octane D&D combats, and crazy ass player high-magic abilities.
I mostly concur with what @TheSword wrote, but eventually magic gets very powerful. With the right rolls it can be much more powerful than magic in D&D. But magic is risky. Things can go wrong and you can suffer miscasts and corruption. A couple warnings:

First, many players may be frustrated with magic run using rules from the core book. If you have players that really want to play magic users, I highly recommend getting The Winds of Magic. The alternate rules for casting are, IMO, are much better than the core rules.

Second, one legitimate complaint some people have with the rules of magic is that there can be a bit of trap for players are new and don't fully understand how different skills and talents affect casting effectiveness. If the player min-maxes a bit, casting can be much more reliable, much more quickly. Players who don't realize this until later in the game may have complaints similar to complaints some have with D&D 3.5 or Pathfinder 1e, where they feel they feel into a trap due to lack of system knowledge. There are many fans of Warhammer who just buy into the deadliness and chaos baked into the game. But for new players, esp. coming from D&D, you might want to mitigate it. E.g., have them pick race, class, etc. They won't get the starting-xp bonus from randomizing character creation but many D&D players want to build a character concept so don't force them to randomize it.

You may recommend that a player wanting to play a Wizard play an Elf to avoid physical mutations from exposure to chaos influence. Also, instead of trying to level up their career, spend more time at lower careers maxing out certain attribute and talents. You will not be able to increase certain talents after you go to the next career level (at least without extra cost in XP and coin through a downtime endeavor). Magic users will want to put their XP into maxing out the Instinctive Dictation and Aetheric Attunement talents when they get access to them. Also increase intelligence and will power early on. Also using the rules for familiars in Winds of Magic, a Power Familiar with its Magical Assistant talent helps. By the second career level, when they get their staff and robes, that will help as well (using the rules in Winds of Magic). Wizards will still not feel very magic in the first level of their career, but they can increase the likelihood of success when casting magic and get much more powerful result sooner by focusing on spending EXP on the attributes and talents discussed above.

One of my players loves to play wizards in D&D and has played wizard characters (well, and one sorcerer) over the past 10 years of my D&D campaigns. He is enjoying the magic rules in WFRP (with the Winds of Magic book). But it does take more time in WFRP for a wizard to have a lot of spells to cast.

As for combat, we a much preferring it of D&D 5e combat. I will say, however, that using Foundry improves the experience. There are a lot of time you need next to roll on random tables during combat. Because that is automated in foundry is happens instantly so you get the benefits of more flavorful, dangerous, and an fun combat they bring, without page flipping. The advantage mechanic also makes combat far more dynamic. I prefer the Group Advantage rules in Up in Arms, but the Core rules are fun as well. I just prefer how Group Advantage keeps the players thinking as a group in combat and having more reason to pay attention during other player's turns.
 

MNblockhead

A Title Much Cooler Than Anything on the Old Site
I also now that the Advantages-rules got a big improvement in Arms of Fire. And also that the magic book (Winds of Magic?) improved spells/magic. So I get a feeling they are kind of needed?
And also - how action-packed are the Ubersreik adventures? My 5e group like a ration of 30% non-action and 70% action, and I get the feeling that we would have to change that significantly (not that that is necessarily a problem, but more that it is something to be aware of).
You don't need Winds of Magic or Up in Arms to run the game. But I think they greatly improve the game. You can find rules references that summarize the new casting rules and group advantage rules if you just want to add those bit and don't want all the other subsystems, classes, endeavors, and items. You can save money by getting the PDFs instead of the hardcover books. Also, you'll find bundles on the Cubicle 7 website and Drive Thru RPG that bring the price down. But I will also call out the Foundry module once again. You just toggle the options from WoM and UiA that you want to use and Foundry will apply the new rules when resolving rolls.

As for how "action-packed", if by that you mean combat, it depends. Warhammer does a good job supporting a combat focused game (and this is what their art and video games lean into), but it is also a good system for running social encounters and exploration. I think it does a much better job than D&D in these pillars.

Almost all adventures will have some combat, but the percentage of combat vs other activity varies from adventure to adventure. Rough Nights and Hard Days (RNHD) is a collection of adventures that can be connected into a campaign, especially when mixed with adventures from the three Ubersreik Adventures books. In RNHDs the "action" is driven more by lots of events occuring based on a time counter.

One other thing to consider is that injury and healing can prevent the multiple combat adventuring day that D&D leans into. If you have a combat focused group, I think Warhammer works best if you have an objective (find and kill the Goblins who have been raiding a town, disrupt a cultist ritual, etc. And then use the "In Between Adventures" downtime rules from the core book. It provides a streamlined way to play through longer periods of down time, giving the characters time to heal wounds and recover from injuries, in a quick and streamlined manner.
 

BigZebra

Adventurer
Guys! Thanks for all that info. It is extremely interesting reading about your experiences. Thanks! I think I will give it a try when our current campaign wraps up.
 

HaroldTheHobbit

Adventurer
What are some of the quirks that through you off? Not trying to proselytize to you or convince you of anything. I'm just curious. The big one for me was the Core magic rules. But I'm really like the Winds of Magic alternate rules. The only issue I have with Winds of Magic is that one of my player is REALLY into wizards. Always plays that class in D&D. And is playing a wizard of the Grey Order in our WFRP campaign. He is also good a rules mastery. This is all good. But he is really into bringing in some of the WoM subsystems on potions, familiars, etc. Also, all good. The one thing I'm not sure I want to deal with in this campaign is all the ley lines and waypoint stuff. I don't want to play a mini game of Minecraft redstone engineering in my WFRP campaign.
It's no specific thing per se, like "I hate Advantage". It's more the way the heavy crunch is implemented - the crunch is applied in an off, weird way for the effects and play style I interpret the writers intend.

I've been gaming on and off since the early eighties, and have gotten a taste of many traditionalist style games. But even in the old math heavy deep crunch games like FGU Aftermath etc there is a certain traditionalist game system logic that is applied. And that logic is messed up in 4e - it's very much more a feeling and experience in actual playing than specific things I can point at. My long-time players have the same experience in actual play. Hence we simply put in on hold, rather than spend more hours trying to adapt and house rule.
 

TheSword

Legend
It's no specific thing per se, like "I hate Advantage". It's more the way the heavy crunch is implemented - the crunch is applied in an off, weird way for the effects and play style I interpret the writers intend.

I've been gaming on and off since the early eighties, and have gotten a taste of many traditionalist style games. But even in the old math heavy deep crunch games like FGU Aftermath etc there is a certain traditionalist game system logic that is applied. And that logic is messed up in 4e - it's very much more a feeling and experience in actual playing than specific things I can point at. My long-time players have the same experience in actual play. Hence we simply put in on hold, rather than spend more hours trying to adapt and house rule.
Any examples though, it’s difficult to understand what your describing? It might be because WFRP was the first game I DMd back in the early 90’s so I take a lot of stuff for granted. To be clear I’m not trying to argue you out of your feeling. WFRP is not a perfect system by any means. It’s just a ‘best fit’ system for me where the disadvantages don’t bother me too much and are outweighed by the awesome bits.

Is there any specific elements that seem janky?

I definitely think the way shields were implemented originally was somewhat off. But that was fixed with the simple shield option in Up in Arms.

I kinda like that weirdness and swinginess is baked in through tactical circumstances - advantage, outnumbering, range etc rather than too many random tables. Though they can be great.

The only random tables that come up for us are crits, and fumbles with occasional miscasts. That said my witch player was trying to secretly explore a ships deck at night and miscast the silent steps cantrip causing her to inflate with air and float like Aunt Marge. It was pretty hilarious as she bounced off the deck above trying to hang onto something.

On a side note I ran Rough Night at the three feathers for that first DM experience aged 16 and described the cult of Morr as Cultists meaning the players thought they we daemon worshippers all the way through. I also described a room as containing a trapdoor with a carpet over it… back then I did better with boxed text. My comprehension is better now.
 
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Tutara

Adventurer
WFRP 4E continues to be one of my favourite systems, and I am always pleased to see it crop up in a thread. I find it a little odd when it gets called crunchy - particularly in relation to D&D 5E, which we tried to play again after a six month break and found utterly baffling in its complexity! We haven't found it massively so, although it could just be we're better suited to its crunch than D&D's.

That said, I'm probably doing it wrong but it is robust enough that we can bumble through until we're not sure how to resolve something, at which point we usually discover there is a rule that covers it and carry on.
 
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MNblockhead

A Title Much Cooler Than Anything on the Old Site
It's no specific thing per se, like "I hate Advantage". It's more the way the heavy crunch is implemented - the crunch is applied in an off, weird way for the effects and play style I interpret the writers intend.

I've been gaming on and off since the early eighties, and have gotten a taste of many traditionalist style games. But even in the old math heavy deep crunch games like FGU Aftermath etc there is a certain traditionalist game system logic that is applied. And that logic is messed up in 4e - it's very much more a feeling and experience in actual playing than specific things I can point at. My long-time players have the same experience in actual play. Hence we simply put in on hold, rather than spend more hours trying to adapt and house rule.
Interesting. I love the advantage system. Have you looked at the Group Advantage rules? Foundry really makes it easy to track. But even in in-person play, I would just use poker chips, bottle caps, or something to track it.

I do agree that some of the book-keeping could be a bit much for many people. Especially the number of things that require you to track time. For example, disease incubation and illness time. Injury healing times. Having to note down when a potion was made and by who.

Not everyone wants a calendar to be a necessary game aid. I suspect many people handwave or just fudge some of this. Again foundry makes this easier, hough not for potions, for potions I add the necessary info to the potion item's name.
 

MNblockhead

A Title Much Cooler Than Anything on the Old Site
Now that I have 30-40 hours running and playing in WFRP4e and spent more time engaging with the rules in game prep, rather than just reading them, it has clicked and I do find some aspects more streamlined than D&D. But when I first started looking at the rules after playing 5e for a decade, it felt more difficult to learn. For example, the success-level mechanic seemed complex to me. It isn't, really and is actually pretty slick once you get the hang of it. But the match, while easy, takes a bit more effort than D&D5e's you meat the DC level, or you don't. But I do like WFRPs success and failure levels. Most DMs do the same thing in D&D, but it is more DM fiat. You failed by just one vs you failed by 10. That's now RAW in D&D but I find most DMs just intuitively gravitate towards this. WFRP bakes it into rules as written.

I suppose perceptions of complexity are based on what you are used to.
 

MNblockhead

A Title Much Cooler Than Anything on the Old Site
There are a lot of cool chat commands to generate names, determine travel distances, etc. But the Jodri discord bot remains the best collection of random-generators for WFRP. I would be nice if there could be a Jodri module for Foundry.
 

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