D&D 5E A fix for Hide in Plain Sight

[Lyxen]

The only real requirements are (1) one minute to prepare and (2) don't move once you're ready. When preparing an ambush I don't think it's that rare to have 1 minute.

I won't say it's an extremely useful feature, especially for a 10th level one which is a level that a considerable number of tables will never play at anyway, and where you expect features to be, let's say, "high level" whereas that one could be had at a very low level honestly and not imbalance the game at all.

That being said, it's not a totally useless feature, in our groups, the PCs often prepare ambushes (or the NPCs for that matter), and that allows the ranger to position himself in an interesting place and have little likelihood of being found out (+10 is a really a huge bonus).

That being said, @Charlaquin 's suggestion is far from being unreasonable at that level, I understand wanting the rangers non-magical...

 

[ECMO3]

Yes, but you hide once you are camouflaged.

Any time after you camo. RAW, you could hide a tenday after you applied the camo, because an hour, a tenday, a year are all after that.

There is no after you apply the camo but before you hide. Hiding is the benefit of the camo.

Nothing in the rules says or implies this. It does not say you can take no other action except hie between when you apply the camo and press yourself against the wall. You are adding words into the ability.

Heck applying the camo and hiding are in two separate paragraphs, in th English language that it applies to two separate points.

Except the bolded part.

The bolded part is after you hide, not after you apply the camo. If it was the other way around it would be in the first paragraph, not in the second paragraph.

It doesn’t say after you spend 1 minute applying the camouflage, it says once you are camouflaged. If you interpret “once” to mean “at any point you want after,” then you can also stop being hidden at any point you want after moving, which is self-evidently not correct.

I am not following the second part. The RAW are pretty clear:

1. You apply camo
2. At any point thereafter, in any location that has a surface larger than you, you press yourself up against something and take the hide action
3. You remain hidden there with a +10 to your stealth, until you move, take an action or reaction or I suppose die of hunger
4. You can't complete this sequence again until after you spend a minute applying the camo again.

Whatever, I don’t care to argue with you about what the RAW is here. If you rule that it works that way, it’s better. But if you’re going to rule that way, I say you might as well rule that the camo lasts after moving too.

The camo does last after moving, just not after hiding (or more accurately hiding with a +10 after pressing yourself against the wall).

Happy Holidays!

 

[Charlaquin]

Any time after you camo. RAW, you could hide a tenday after you applied the camo, because an hour, a tenday, a year are all after that.



Nothing in the rules says or implies this. It does not say you can take no other action except hie between when you apply the camo and press yourself against the wall. You are adding words into the ability.

Heck applying the camo and hiding are in two separate paragraphs, in th English language that it applies to two separate points.


The bolded part is after you hide, not after you apply the camo. If it was the other way around it would be in the first paragraph, not in the second paragraph.



I am not following the second part. The RAW are pretty clear:

1. You apply camo
2. At any point thereafter, in any location that has a surface larger than you, you press yourself up against something and take the hide action
3. You remain hidden there with a +10 to your stealth, until you move, take an action or reaction or I suppose die of hunger
4. You can't complete this sequence again until after you spend a minute applying the camo again.



The camo does last after moving, just not after hiding (or more accurately hiding with a +10 after pressing yourself against the wall).

Happy Holidays!

It doesn’t say “at any point thereafter.” It says “Once you are camouflaged in this way.” It also says, “Once you move or take an action or a reaction, you must camouflage yourself again to gain this benefit.”

Your interpretation requires treating the first instance of “once X, Y” as “at any point after X, Y” and the other instance of once X, Y” as “immediately after X, Y.” My interpretation is consistent in how it treats the term “once.”

 

[ECMO3]

It doesn’t say “at any point thereafter.” It says “Once you are camouflaged in this way.” It also says, “Once you move or take an action or a reaction, you must camouflage yourself again to gain this benefit.”
Your interpretation requires treating the first instance of “once X, Y” as “at any point after X, Y” and the other instance of once X, Y” as “immediately after X, Y.” My interpretation is consistent in how it treats the term “once.

Those are two entirely different paragraphs. The first is referring to the camo, the second is referring to the hiding. Moreover you need to move to "press yourself against something" that in itself requires a small amount of movement to accomplish.

If the movement applied to the camo it would say it before it talked about pressing yourself up to the surface. It would say:

you can spend 1 minute creating camouflage for yourself. You must have access to fresh mud, dirt, plants, soot, and other naturally occurring materials with which to create your camouflage. If you move you need to reapply the camouflage .....

Then after this paragraph it would say "Once you are camouflaged in this way....

Finally, if the argument is the ability is weak, why would you purposely choose the weaker of the possible interpretations?

 

[Charlaquin]

Finally, if the argument is the ability is weak, why would you purposely choose the weaker of the possible interpretations?

Because I believe it to be the correct interpretation. But it’s irrelevant. Either way you interpret it, I believe my house rule to be better, and I recommend it if you find Hide in Plain Sight to be too weak and don’t like Nature’s Veil as an alternative.