D&D General A Gruumsh Of A Different Type

[Kurotowa]

When it comes to Maglubiyet, two things stand out to me. One is that while War is his signature domain, he's less a god of battle than he is a god of the military. War, to Maglubiyet, is about ranks of trained soldiers acting as a single disciplined unit, both in peace time and in combat. The other is that Maglubiyet is a god that welcomes converts. Everyone has a place in the ranks of his army, so long as they swear to him and obey his laws. So I would cast Maglubiyet as the god of military expansionism and colonial conquest, one who's always eager to assimilate new peoples under his banner.

Forsake your old gods and old ways! Submit willingly or at sword's point, because nothing will stop the advancement of Maglubiyet's chosen. They bring a new order, a better order, where everyone is equal in the eyes of Maglubiyet and rises through the ranks on their own merits. Discipline will be enforced, everyone will be put in their proper place, and you will be better for it. Don't fight it. The superior culture always wins out, and only goblin culture is free of the weakness and corruption you see everywhere else.

(Unlike my recast of Gruumsh, this Maglubiyet is still very much in a villain role. It's just one less burdened with racist legacy baggage.)

 

[Chaosmancer]

Why should I care, though?

I mean first of all I don’t even use either of them in my games, but even if I did, having one wouldn’t preclude the other in any way.

Why should you care that bugbears aren't dragons?

Because if we are going to define things it is useful to know why they are defined the way they are, but the lines between evil gods and demon lords and archdevils are so blurred and confused, we don't know why they are what they are. Except, gods are better somehow? Maybe.

Anyone else think Maglubiyet is kind of a dumb name? It sounds like mal-oubliette, but slightly mixed-up and with a random glottal sound thrown in just for the hell of it. I hate reading it, I hate trying to spell it, I hate trying to pronounce it out loud, it’s just a bad name.

It is definitely one of my least favorite names.


He is actually a major focus of a current campaign I am in. The idea so far seems to be that the Goblin people and Maglubiyet are broken from some terrible tragedy, they are lost and he is consuming everything trying to fill the void of loss within himself,

It is an interesting story so far.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Because if we are going to define things it is useful to know why they are defined the way they are, but the lines between evil gods and demon lords and archdevils are so blurred and confused, we don't know why they are what they are. Except, gods are better somehow? Maybe.

Im not super interested in this. It seems like it’s spilling into this thread from the thread about evil gods, and it isn’t helpful, for me at least, to the idea of coming up with less one-dimensional deities.

Gruumsh is cool, Orcus is...there, and Nerull is less interesting than the Raven Queen or Kelemvor. But I just don’t care abou the supposed conflict or whatever of having a demon lord who is super into undeath and a god of undeath.

 

[Minigiant]

Seems like a good patron of soldiers who have to fight superior military forces.

Feels more like Gruumsh.

Maglubiyet isn't like his goblins. His goal is to build armies as he sees them as a necessity. And Mags is willing to build them any way possible, even if its mostly to quickbreeding vicious tiny monsters who are too cowardly to disobey orders.

Soo Mags would be the patron of the soldier who is a bit "war crimey" in order to protect his or her home. Those who love the concept of military and pray to win for whatever reason.

Gruumsh seems like he has a reason for fighting besides mere need for it. This directed anger. Especially against the stronger or those who have wronged you or your people.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Feels more like Gruumsh.

Maglubiyet isn't like his goblins. His goal is to build armies as he sees them as a necessity. And Mags is willing to build them any way possible, even if its mostly to quickbreeding vicious tiny monsters who are too cowardly to disobey orders.

Soo Mags would be the patron of the soldier who is a bit "war crimey" in order to protect his or her home. Those who love the concept of military and pray to win for whatever reason.

Gruumsh seems like he has a reason for fighting besides mere need for it. This directed anger. Especially against the stronger or those who have wronged you or your people.

Eh, if you wanna go that way go for it, I prefer the take I posted.

Your take relies in person of the goblins being naturally cowardly, which isn’t at all a thing my worlds.

 

[Chaosmancer]

Im not super interested in this. It seems like it’s spilling into this thread from the thread about evil gods, and it isn’t helpful, for me at least, to the idea of coming up with less one-dimensional deities.

Gruumsh is cool, Orcus is...there, and Nerull is less interesting than the Raven Queen or Kelemvor. But I just don’t care about the supposed conflict or whatever of having a demon lord who is super into undeath and a god of undeath.

It is spilling over a little bit, but someone asked why we would even try to make Gruumsh more neutral, and well, that is the reason. You don't have to be interested in it for that to be the case.

Your take relies in person of the goblins being naturally cowardly, which isn’t at all a thing my worlds.

Same, I removed the cowardlyness of goblins at the start of the edition. They are very spec-ops at that point (though I still have troubles with Bugbears, they just don't fit well anywhere)

 

[prabe]

Same, I removed the cowardlyness of goblins at the start of the edition. They are very spec-ops at that point (though I still have troubles with Bugbears, they just don't fit well anywhere)

I think if you play them to their strengths, it might read as "cowardly," but that's not the same thing as goblins being cowards.

 

[Minigiant]

Eh, if you wanna go that way go for it, I prefer the take I posted.

Your take relies in person of the goblins being naturally cowardly, which isn’t at all a thing my worlds.

I take goblin cowardliness as more extreme caution and willingness to submit to authority. Goblins follow the orders of the masters without question and abhor an unfavorable fight.

Something Maglubiyet wants in this armies. Soldiers who wont disobey orders and not "stupid-brave". Mags wants grunts for his army.
He doesn't want Gruumsh's unruly anarchist orcs who get mad and charge headfirst 5 seconds after the sides see each other.

 

[Kurotowa]

Same, I removed the cowardlyness of goblins at the start of the edition. They are very spec-ops at that point (though I still have troubles with Bugbears, they just don't fit well anywhere)

Bugbears are shock troopers that specialize in ambushes from unexpected angles instead of frontal assaults. Your enemies are in tight formation? Have the bugbears flank them and break the backline. Your enemies are dug into a fortified location? Have the bugbears scale an "impassable" wall or cliff face to drop in and secure the gateway.

Hobgoblins attack in disciplined formation. Goblins sneak in to sabotage your stuff. Bugbears leap from ambush to gank the casters.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

It is spilling over a little bit, but someone asked why we would even try to make Gruumsh more neutral, and well, that is the reason. You don't have to be interested in it for that to be the case.

I’m not gonna stop discouraging that spillover

Same, I removed the cowardlyness of goblins at the start of the edition. They are very spec-ops at that point (though I still have troubles with Bugbears, they just don't fit well anywhere)

I find bugbears pretty easy to fit. They’re like a mix of tigers and cheetahs with the physicality of gorillas. Socially, they neat together in piles like cats, their play can seem scary and violent to outsiders and doesn’t end with childhood, and they spend most of their time in leisure if they can, punctuated by short bursts of speed and physical exertion that can be scary if when it isn’t violent.

The old “shock troop” placement makes no sense for them IMO. They’re better as ambushers, letting goblins set the bait, and wreaking havoc upon the enemy once they’re in an advantageous position, and then hobgoblins encircle with disciplined formations to destroy the enemy or ensure their surrender.

In a workspace, bugbears laze about waiting to be called upon to quickly move very heavy things. They can be pushed to work hard to extended periods but they will be exhausted afterward, and if you want long term productivity you want to let them take regular naps and do what they do best in short bursts.

I also tend to put them up in trees and such. They naturally like to live and sleep in places they are hard to get to, and from where they can ambush. Move settled bugbears make tree homes and villages with rope bridges and the like.