A pair of numbers-based issues: how do you all handle them?

[Upper_Krust]

Hey Rhuarc amigo,

apologies for the slow reply. Busy with work the past few days.

The book only goes to level 30.

Okay.

Also, they change their personal rating of a monster over level 20 into 'Mythic Ranks', which goes from 1 to 10.

I wonder did they ever read Pathfinder Mythic.

They have a whole small subsystem (pretty easy but can't remember from the top of my head) about what a party of certain character levels is challenged well by what mythic rank. But the most powerful monster (Hastur) is meant to be a boss level threat for CR 30 character from what I can tell.

I'll probably pick it up after I release my own stuff. I always like to support epic material.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Yup, that's why I stopped using XP in my E20 game. The PCs can earn Epic boons either through 5 sessions of online play (about 12-15 hours) or through an Epic achievement - but the latter gets harder and harder. Eg a solo PC with 0 boons can earn a boon from defeating a CR 20, 1 boon CR 21, 2 boons CR 22, and so on up to 10 boons needs to solo a CR 30.

That would certainly help but I can't see you keeping track of potentially dozens of Boons for high powered NPC deities.

 

[S'mon]

That would certainly help but I can't see you keeping track of potentially dozens of Boons for high powered NPC deities.

Sure, NPCs get whatever abilities look appropriate.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Sure, NPCs get whatever abilities look appropriate.

Absolutely, but in principle, it might work better having fewer more powerful abilities than 10, 20, 30 or even 40 Epic Boons.

One thing that might help is if every even numbered Epic boon must be an Ability Score Boost.

 

[Beefermatic]

As someone who regularly runs IH campaigns with a dedicated group, we know that IH basically has a lot of flaws but with estimations and knowledge of what abilities to take and what counters what, it's easy enough to be workable. It's true the basic d20 rolls become less and less used and it more becomes a basic thing of 'you can't beat his check, but see if you can roll a nat 20' and knowing what abilities they have and how you can with allies take an enemy down and keep them dead. I've said it before, it becomes more of a chess match than dnd in the traditional sense but, the epic combat/ story and the character growth from a basic person to a truly infallable Divine being is really where this system shines and the giant numbers and being a God of Paragons and such make it very shiny. At least for my group. Anyway, I hope this helps.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hey Beefy mate!

As someone who regularly runs IH campaigns with a dedicated group, we know that IH basically has a lot of flaws but with estimations and knowledge of what abilities to take and what counters what, it's easy enough to be workable. It's true the basic d20 rolls become less and less used and it more becomes a basic thing of 'you can't beat his check, but see if you can roll a nat 20' and knowing what abilities they have and how you can with allies take an enemy down and keep them dead. I've said it before, it becomes more of a chess match than dnd in the traditional sense but, the epic combat/ story and the character growth from a basic person to a truly infallable Divine being is really where this system shines and the giant numbers and being a God of Paragons and such make it very shiny. At least for my group. Anyway, I hope this helps.

I think the main thing is everyone is having fun.

From a design perspective, if two systems accomplish the same goals then the simplest one is best. But if you are already used to the more complex system then learning the new one might seem counter productive.

As a designer, I don't want to get bogged down devoting hours to detailing dozens of feats, abilities, spells and skills; most of which are not that important in the grand scheme of things.

 

[Akira Whitlock]

Hey Beefy mate!



I think the main thing is everyone is having fun.

From a design perspective, if two systems accomplish the same goals then the simplest one is best. But if you are already used to the more complex system then learning the new one might seem counter productive.

As a designer, I don't want to get bogged down devoting hours to detailing dozens of feats, abilities, spells and skills; most of which are not that important in the grand scheme of things.

Thats an interesting part of the controversy eith 5e vs 3.5/pf. Simplification of the system has its benefits but some players (my group) enjoy the customization of characters in a level by level basis. One great example of this that 5e lacks is equipment. For pathfinder or 3.5 there is an endless combination of weapons and equipment that give different bonuses. Some people would consider this a downside but not all. My players dislike the"cookie cutter" feel of 5e since the system has been boiled down to its bare minimum. Dont get me wrong though it is drastically easier for new players and community stat developers.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hey Akira mate!

Thats an interesting part of the controversy eith 5e vs 3.5/pf. Simplification of the system has its benefits but some players (my group) enjoy the customization of characters in a level by level basis. One great example of this that 5e lacks is equipment. For pathfinder or 3.5 there is an endless combination of weapons and equipment that give different bonuses. Some people would consider this a downside but not all. My players dislike the"cookie cutter" feel of 5e since the system has been boiled down to its bare minimum. Dont get me wrong though it is drastically easier for new players and community stat developers.

Are you saying 5E doesn't have as many items? It would be interesting to compare the core rulebooks on that. Certainly capping the bonuses at +3 instead of +5 has aided numerical complexity (for its own sake).

Or are you suggesting that because 3E/Pathfinder have so many sourcebooks that there are far more items (of course with a greater number of items - with potentially higher bonuses you increase the chances of more broken items).

 

[Beefermatic]

See that's what's funny. My group has tried 5th Ed, we didn't hate it but we played one campaign with the starter pack and played it out for a while but we stopped and went back to 3.5/PF soon afterwards. We like the complexity and uniqueness 3.5/PF/IH provides.

My current group feels it's kind of like DBZ in the sense that where they started was epic but where they end up in unfathomable in the beginning of the series.

I agree it's about fun but I also believe different people like different things in a campaign. My best friend for example doesn't like high level intergalactic campaigns and more just wants to be a guy with a sword killing things and perhaps becoming a king. My wife on the other hand can't get enough IH and ten years after our first campaign only wants to game IH.

Different strokes for different folks I suppose but ultimately I love the IH system and feel it's the only system that really embodies what fighting a sentient black hole or star God or anything that we actually in real life may attribute to God would be or feel like. All the other systems either make them too OP in broken choppy ways or way too weak.

¯\(ツ)/¯

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hey amigo!

See that's what's funny. My group has tried 5th Ed, we didn't hate it but we played one campaign with the starter pack and played it out for a while but we stopped and went back to 3.5/PF soon afterwards. We like the complexity and uniqueness 3.5/PF/IH provides.

I disliked 5E when I first played it.

Also I think it has, hands down the worst Monster Manual of any edition.

But I think mechanically it does a few things right that make the fundamentals better than 4E or 3E.

My current group feels it's kind of like DBZ in the sense that where they started was epic but where they end up in unfathomable in the beginning of the series.

KAME-HAME-HA!!!

I agree it's about fun but I also believe different people like different things in a campaign. My best friend for example doesn't like high level intergalactic campaigns and more just wants to be a guy with a sword killing things and perhaps becoming a king.

See with the worship points system he could have both - RP'ing the servants or key worshippers, etc.

My wife on the other hand can't get enough IH and ten years after our first campaign only wants to game IH.

Give her a big kiss and a hug from me! xo

Different strokes for different folks I suppose but ultimately I love the IH system and feel it's the only system that really embodies what fighting a sentient black hole or star God or anything that we actually in real life may attribute to God would be or feel like. All the other systems either make them too OP in broken choppy ways or way too weak.

¯\(ツ)/¯

One of these days I'll do a better system...probably..maybe.