D&D General A paladin just joined the group. I'm a necromancer.

[FrogReaver]

If it's in the PH, that kinda makes it the default like it or not and regardless of setting, which means...

...that having it give way is always an intentional house rule.

No. That's not the definition of a house rule. Let's not go there though. Agreed?

The rules also say Tieflings can be PCs but that's also not applicable to all settings and-or tables. Doesn;t make the rule any less legitimate, or any less the default.

You seem to be confusing my stance.
1. I've never once said the rule cited wasn't the "default". I agree that in many if not most settings that necromancy will be evil.
2. The illegitimacy of the rule is that it's written as if it applies to all settings when it does not.

 

[FrogReaver]

If this is the hill you've chosen to die on then so be it, but it sure ain't the one I'd have picked.

Either all the rules are legitimate, or none are; and valid arguments can probably be made both ways.

I've set out one very specific criteria for what I'm calling an illegitimate rule. A setting specific rule that is being quoted as if it applies to all settings.

The non-defendable and thus hopeless position is that some are legitimate and some are not.

Just because you say so doesn't make it so.

 

[Flamestrike]

There is a rule. I've acknowledged that. The question is on it's legitimacy. In this case it's a setting specific rule masquerading as if it applies to all settings.

No it's not. Where does it say that it applies to all settings and you cant change it?

Like; in Ebberon (a core setting) there are explicitly Good aligned undead that are not powered by unholy energy or dark magic, and where the creation of them is not Evil.

The rule we are discussing (undead are evil monsters created by unholy forbidden magic and animating them is evil) is the default assumption for the game. Its no different to how the game defaults to Chromatic dragons being evil and Metallic dragons being good aligned.

Is the fact that Black dragons exist and are evil by default also an 'illegitimate' rule?

 

[FrogReaver]

No it's not. Where does it say that it applies to all settings and you cant change it?

If it doesn't apply to all settings then why are you quoting it to mean that necromancers must always be evil if they summon undead?

 

[Flamestrike]

If it doesn't apply to all settings then why are you quoting it to mean that necromancers must always be evil if they summon undead?

Unless you're playing in a setting or game where they can be good aligned and create undead often (a homebrewed setting, or Eberron, where the specific setting rule of goodly neromanncers and undead overrides the PHB) Necromancers must be evil if they frequently create undead.

Unless the DM rules otherwise, or the setting says otherwise, the default is that creating undead in 5E uses dark unholy magic, and is an act that only Evil people do often.

 

[FrogReaver]

Unless you're playing in a setting or game where they can be good aligned and create undead often (a homebrewed setting, or Eberron, where the specific setting rule of goodly neromanncers and undead overrides the PHB) Necromancers must be evil if they frequently create undead.

This I agree with. What it means is that that not all Necromancers that frequently create undead are evil. Why am I the only one connecting those dots?

 

[Flamestrike]

This I agree with. What it means is that that not all Necromancers that frequently create undead are evil. Why am I the only one connecting those dots?

Wut?

They are evil unless the setting (or DM) stipulates otherwise. Like with every other bloody rule in the book!

 

[FrogReaver]

Wut?

They are evil unless the setting (or DM) stipulates otherwise. Like with every other bloody rule in the book!

And that means that not all necromancers which frequently create undead are evil!

Say it with me please!

 

[Lanefan]

I've set out one very specific criteria for what I'm calling an illegitimate rule. A setting specific rule that is being quoted as if it applies to all settings.

Fine.

What about the other 4375 similar rules - i.e. about 3/4 of the PH in any edition - that could also just as easily be defined as setting-specific?

Why do you only care about this one?

 

[FrogReaver]

Fine.

What about the other 4375 similar rules - i.e. about 3/4 of the PH in any edition - that could also just as easily be defined as setting-specific?

Why do you only care about this one?

Name another?