D&D 5E A Proper Ability Score Generation Preference Poll

[smbakeresq]

Why I dislike Standard array and 27-point buy.
I dislike standard array because you are guarantied a negative stat modifier. I have no problem playing with an 9 or less if I end up with one but not guarantied or having to pick a race and use its stat bonus to remove it instead of boosting a stat. I usually play human/variant human so standard array the best I can get 1 16 and 2 14 and cant even out that 8.

27-point buy pretty much the same issue, while you can get 2 16 with human the rest of your stats will be low or below average.

To me both methods limit you.

As always this is just my opinion.

Correct they do.

And about that negative modifier, most players will role play their PC as if that negative modifier didn't exist. It only applies to their saving throws, otherwise it will no part in the PC makeup. They will play the cautious, wise PC with 8 WIS who talks all the time at the table with his 8 CHR until its time to make a role playing Insight and Perceptions and Persuasion check then state "I have a low WIS and CHR someone else needs to talk to magistrate to figure out where we stand." That gets annoying also.

 

[redrick]

I'd probably just wind up using the standard array so I don't have to bother thinking about anything.

And it would be a reasonable choice freely made! The standard array is a great basis for a character. Good at two abilities. Above average at two abilities. Average at one ability. Below average at one ability. On the whole, you are an exceptional individual, though still with room to grow. You have one limitation in ability score, but it's not so low as to be truly debilitating — both from a mechanical and RP perspective.

 

[smbakeresq]

Why I dislike Standard array and 27-point buy.
I dislike standard array because you are guarantied a negative stat modifier. I have no problem playing with an 9 or less if I end up with one but not guarantied or having to pick a race and use its stat bonus to remove it instead of boosting a stat. I usually play human/variant human so standard array the best I can get 1 16 and 2 14 and cant even out that 8.

27-point buy pretty much the same issue, while you can get 2 16 with human the rest of your stats will be low or below average.

To me both methods limit you.

As always this is just my opinion.

Another way to look at it is this. Think of an iconic hero, say Conan. Well Conan STR and CON were and are legendary, so he would need 2 15's there to start. That 18 points out of 27 already. Conan also spoke and could read several languages and wasn't stupid, so there has to be at least a 10 there, maybe more. He was also rather Charismatic and attracted and had several followers through out the books, he even became King, I figure his CHR would be at least a 14. While certainly not the quickest of follows he was also never portrayed as slow or clumsy, having a DEX of at least 12 would seem appropriate. I can see a 10 wisdom, he was awed by some magical things, maybe not understanding them, but he also wasn't a fool. So 15, 15, 14, 12, 10, 10, that's 34 points before Human racial is added in.

Everyone that plays D&D and is my age (48) remembers when Conan came out in the theatres and ran right back to the table to be Conan. We bought the modules too.

Why deny your player that wants be Conan? Why say to him/her "Ok, the 15, 15, and 14 are fine, but you need a 10 and 2 8's. You cant be big strong tough and charismatic and of average intelligence and wisdom, you must be dumb and foolish."

 

[Oofta]

Another way to look at it is this. Think of an iconic hero, say Conan. Well Conan STR and CON were and are legendary, so he would need 2 15's there to start. That 18 points out of 27 already. Conan also spoke and could read several languages and wasn't stupid, so there has to be at least a 10 there, maybe more. He was also rather Charismatic and attracted and had several followers through out the books, he even became King, I figure his CHR would be at least a 14. While certainly not the quickest of follows he was also never portrayed as slow or clumsy, having a DEX of at least 12 would seem appropriate. I can see a 10 wisdom, he was awed by some magical things, maybe not understanding them, but he also wasn't a fool. So 15, 15, 14, 12, 10, 10, that's 34 points before Human racial is added in.

Everyone that plays D&D and is my age (48) remembers when Conan came out in the theatres and ran right back to the table to be Conan. We bought the modules too.

Why deny your player that wants be Conan? Why say to him/her "Ok, the 15, 15, and 14 are fine, but you need a 10 and 2 8's. You cant be big strong tough and charismatic and of average intelligence and wisdom, you must be dumb and foolish."

Well, Conan is kind of a munchkin; you also seem to be assuming that the Conan of the movies is 1st level.

Which leads to the question - what other option are you suggesting? Rolling is a crapshoot. You may end up with Conan or you may end up with his comedy relief sidekick Malak.

But what works for movies does not always work for a game. If you want to guarantee that everyone can play Conan you can increase the points for point buy and/or increase the maximum number you can buy. We did that for one campaign, and to be honest I think it was a mistake. Newer campaigns always start out with the standard 27 points which seems to work better from a balance perspective.

I'm not saying rolling (or other methods) are wrong, just that people seem to assume they're going to roll Conan when they may also roll Ralph "it tastes like burning" Wiggum.

 

[Yardiff]

And it would be a reasonable choice freely made! The standard array is a great basis for a character. Good at two abilities. Above average at two abilities. Average at one ability. Below average at one ability. On the whole, you are an exceptional individual, though still with room to grow. You have one limitation in ability score, but it's not so low as to be truly debilitating — both from a mechanical and RP perspective.

No that 8 is not debilitating and is a good RP hook but it should not be a given that you have at least one of these 8.

 

[redrick]

Another way to look at it is this. Think of an iconic hero, say Conan. Well Conan STR and CON were and are legendary, so he would need 2 15's there to start. That 18 points out of 27 already. Conan also spoke and could read several languages and wasn't stupid, so there has to be at least a 10 there, maybe more. He was also rather Charismatic and attracted and had several followers through out the books, he even became King, I figure his CHR would be at least a 14. While certainly not the quickest of follows he was also never portrayed as slow or clumsy, having a DEX of at least 12 would seem appropriate. I can see a 10 wisdom, he was awed by some magical things, maybe not understanding them, but he also wasn't a fool. So 15, 15, 14, 12, 10, 10, that's 34 points before Human racial is added in.

Everyone that plays D&D and is my age (48) remembers when Conan came out in the theatres and ran right back to the table to be Conan. We bought the modules too.

Why deny your player that wants be Conan? Why say to him/her "Ok, the 15, 15, and 14 are fine, but you need a 10 and 2 8's. You cant be big strong tough and charismatic and of average intelligence and wisdom, you must be dumb and foolish."

As I recall, other than his (very reasonable) uneasiness around magic, Conan doesn't possess any real flaws in the stories. The default assumption in D&D is something a little more rounded, especially since characters are meant to be part of a group. If you want to play a character whose only limitation is that he's not awesome at everything, I feel like that's a conversation with your group to decide what kind of game they want.

Conan is a sort of Fighter/Thief/Barbarian gestalt character.

 

[redrick]

No that 8 is not debilitating and is a good RP hook but it should not be a given that you have at least one of these 8.

You can totally shave off the 8 with point buy. Yes, it will cost you on the upper end of your ability scores.

Remember, 10 is "average" and 8 is just slightly below average. A character with 8 intelligence would still be able to read, write and communicate, at least in a modern society where literacy is taught to everyone. I think most of us would be hard pressed to say there is no area in which we are below average.

But hey, if characters with limitations in their abilities isn't your thing, and you have a group that feels similarly, there's nothing wrong with bumping up the power level on the point buy.

I'm not running the numbers rigorously, but there's a 17.5% chance of rolling 9 or less on a 4d6 drop 1. So, with 6 ability scores, that makes the odds of getting at least one low score fairly high.

 

[Arilyn]

Another way to look at it is this. Think of an iconic hero, say Conan. Well Conan STR and CON were and are legendary, so he would need 2 15's there to start. That 18 points out of 27 already. Conan also spoke and could read several languages and wasn't stupid, so there has to be at least a 10 there, maybe more. He was also rather Charismatic and attracted and had several followers through out the books, he even became King, I figure his CHR would be at least a 14. While certainly not the quickest of follows he was also never portrayed as slow or clumsy, having a DEX of at least 12 would seem appropriate. I can see a 10 wisdom, he was awed by some magical things, maybe not understanding them, but he also wasn't a fool. So 15, 15, 14, 12, 10, 10, that's 34 points before Human racial is added in.

Everyone that plays D&D and is my age (48) remembers when Conan came out in the theatres and ran right back to the table to be Conan. We bought the modules too.

Why deny your player that wants be Conan? Why say to him/her "Ok, the 15, 15, and 14 are fine, but you need a 10 and 2 8's. You cant be big strong tough and charismatic and of average intelligence and wisdom, you must be dumb and foolish."

Yes, In books, Conan was also very dexterous. His stats are like Batman' s. Except not as bright, but still smart. He was often wiser than the folks around him too.

Off topic, but I wouldn't make him a barbarian either. Conan doesn't rage. He likes to keep his head in combat. He's a fighter/rogue, maybe a ranger in a F20 game than has spell less rangers as an option.

Anyway, Conan in DnD is tricky, because he has too many high stats. Somebody got really lucky with their rolls!

 

[Yaarel]

From an organized play perspective, I really like Standard Array. I really dislike it when guys come in with stats of 15 15 15 8 8 8, which is what point buy gets me.

In 5e

One dump ability is no problem.

Two is troublesome.

Three is painful.

Consider the low saves, for instance.

 

[Yaarel]

My favored method is, by far, Redrick Roller, with the stats re-ordered as you wish

http://aramis.hostman.us/dnd/RedrickRoller.html

The main properties of this is that it's a 27 point roll, with no score above 15, so it's "balanced". However, there is some randomness because the scores aren't exactly as you wished. So it combines the benefits of both methods, and it can be inspiring for character creation, and avoid "dump stats".

For example, I just rolled 10 13 11 11 15 13

Looking at this, I see a *lot* of odd scores, and a lot of +1 and +0 stats. If I took a standard human, the rolls become 11 14 12 12 16 14, which would be a great stat set for a MAD character - this would make a great paladin or monk for example

Re-rolling I got 10 14 9 12 15 12
Now this array would probably benefit more from another race (ie a +2 and a +1), and would make a solid foundation for a dwarven cleric or fighter, for example.

etc etc

This is pretty cool.

If there was a way to modify it, so that it is possible to generate a 16 score for 14 points, I would use this every time.